• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (2nd Test)

Really think the starting line-up for next week should be:

1. Marler
2. Webber
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Haskell
9. Care
10. Farrell
11. Yarde
12. Eastmond
13. Tuilagi
14. Foden
15. Brown

16.Hartley 17.Mullan 18.Brookes 19.Attwood 20.Vunipola 21.Dickson 22.Burns 23.May

Webber was good again this week.

Wilson worked out that he has hands, thank god, and seems to want the starting 10 berth next week.

Morgan looks like he needs to be rested, Vunipola still looked tired too. Haskell has played a good amount at 8 before.

Eastmond/Tuilagi combo needs no explanation and just needs to happen.
 
Did he just go through the list and type 7 or 8 for all Kiwi's and 5 or 6 for all English players?

Yep, pretty much and any stand out players were given an 8 or 9 I.e. Bin Smuth, Conrad Smith, Savea and Nonu.
 
Well, basically he had less than 10 minutes on the field and he scored. I said in an earlier post I'd have him playing if Eastmond is at 12. Ashton is a better winger than Yarde and May. His try ratio for club and country proves it. His RL style tackles may make him bit of a liability but his form warrants a place much more than Yarde and May.
 
Ashton is a better winger than Yarde and May. His try ratio for club and country proves it.
Not especially. Yes, Ashton has scored a good amount of tries for England in the past, but he's also got a helluva lot more caps, many with no tries.
At club level their strike rates are:
May: A try every 2 games
Yarde: A try every 1.4 games
Ashton: A try every 2.13 games

So he's actually the worse of the three if you go down that route.

Internationally:
May: 7 caps, no tries.
Yarde: 4 caps, three tries (1.3 games per try)
Ashton: 38 caps, 19 tries (2 games per try).


I'd go for a May, Eastmond, Tuilagi, Yarde, Brown backline, with Burrell, Foden or Ashton on the bench.
 
Last edited:
But the point is that it was the Assistant Referee who was miles away who said he thought the ball was grounded. He said that when he was standing ages away. If the correct question: try or no try was asked then it would have been no try. The problem was that the wrong question was asked. I think regardless of the question it should have been no try but the question was a huge mistake.

Well that's a different argument but the ref trusted his team. No issues there. If it was asked "try or no try" then maybe it's different but the amount of slating the ref or TMO getting is disgraceful as they were correct
 
Not especially. Yes, Ashton has scored a good amount of tries for England in the past, but he's also got a helluva lot more caps, many with no tries.
At club level their strike rates are:
May: A try every 2 games
Yarde: A try every 1.4 games
Ashton: A try every 2.13 games

So he's actually the worse of the three if you go down that route.

Internationally:
May: 7 caps, no tries.
Yarde: 4 caps, three tries (1.3 games per try)
Ashton: 38 caps, 19 tries (2 games per try).


I'd go for a May, Eastmond, Tuilagi, Yarde, Brown backline, with Burrell, Foden or Ashton on the bench.

Thing I'd add for England is Tuilagi is a 13 or nothing. He just hasn't got that extra gas for wing. But regards wings it must be factored in too that it's who fits Lancasters gameplan best too. Eastmond/Tuilagi looked very dangerous in centre last weekend. I think Foden could be a vital cog on wing as a 2nd 15/winger role
 
Is Yardes strike ratio really that good for London Irish? I really didn't think so. Yarde and May are quality players but still, Ashton got a try within 10 minutes of coming on.
 
Is Yardes strike ratio really that good for London Irish? I really didn't think so. Yarde and May are quality players but still, Ashton got a try within 10 minutes of coming on.
Yeah, Yarde has had a barnstorming return from injury - played 14 times this season and got 10 tries.
 
Last edited:
Is Yardes strike ratio really that good for London Irish? I really didn't think so. Yarde and May are quality players but still, Ashton got a try within 10 minutes of coming on.

Hang on....he caught a decent pass and only had to run 7 metres to the try line........that does not maketh a winger to me!!

I do think that May (not a real proponent of him either!) is at least as good and that his defence will be a let down if he is selected but there seems to be an irresistible pressure growing for him to start...
 
Not a huge fan of Ashton and well don't know was it because more and more have realised he is a bit of a prick but in last 6 months he accepted he's in a battle for England spot and his work rate has lifted hugely. He has become a much better player these last few months BUT that doesn't mean he's head and shoulders above the rest
 
Hang on....he caught a decent pass and only had to run 7 metres to the try line........that does not maketh a winger to me!!

I do think that May (not a real proponent of him either!) is at least as good and that his defence will be a let down if he is selected but there seems to be an irresistible pressure growing for him to start...

isn't that the exact definition of a good winger? gets himself in a position to score and takes it? Like a goal hanging striker?
 
Ollecrab and Austingir really letting the NZ fans down today . Probably just 13 year old kids that just found out their balls have dropped ........
 
isn't that the exact definition of a good winger? gets himself in a position to score and takes it? Like a goal hanging striker?

Thats the definition an average winger, if that is all they do. I think Tony's point was that was *all* Ashton did and usually all he does. He stays in space and wait for the rest of the team to do the work. That is fine except that both Yarde and May can do that AND do a load of extra work and making things happen from nowhere.

To use your soccer analysis, a striker can score goals by goal hanging but if thats all they do then compared to a striker who scores a few through goal hanging, a few from the set piece and a few through individual brilliance, and who works hard in defense as well, who is the better player?


The other issue I have with Ashton is that he very rarely shows his best form against big teams. He broke the HCup scoring record this year (in a group containing Connacht and Zebre) but where was he in the final? Or the Premiership final for that matter.
 
On the Eastmond thing - in the NH we always laud the SH for doing the basics well.
Ignore Kyle's running thread for a moment.... what does he do? He commits a defender and gives a pass that puts whoever is outside him in the best position to make ground.
Those are the simple things done consistently well - the only times I've seen him struggle to do that are when the opposition has a very intense blitz defense.

I don't mean to say that Farrell had a bad game per se... but it was all a bit meh.
The yellow was very harsh though - that was a maul all day long.

Yarde needs to work on his kicking and his defensive positioning - although the latter is possible down to inexperience than intellect.

agree with all of that Rats, especially the basics done well... we can do all the front door back door options ou want, but a simple 2vs1 execution is the best attacking weapon in modern rugby.

Nothing that the AB's do is complicated, it's just accurate. All of those trys were simple 2 vs 1 execution, suck in defenders then be accurate with your passing and running. People are talking about their running lines and so on, but there is nothing magical about them they just run into space.

The best ting about these AB players is their ability to make the correct decisions consistently over 80 minutes - and it comes down to two things Fitness, and individual accuracy.

If you have 15 guys who all do the simplest things well they will trump a team with the most complex of attack patterns and brusing of defensive strategies.

it's very very simple rugby done accurately. They run deep attacking lines and pass once the man is commited, they defend with a simple drift defence meaning defenders seldom get isolated.

I've felt for a while that England are too lateral in attack, and it doesn't need a bulldozing runner to straighten it needs a player who can just old a defender and pass before the drift can move.

So Eastmond.

Thats the definition an average winger, if that is all they do. I think Tony's point was that was *all* Ashton did and usually all he does. He stays in space and wait for the rest of the team to do the work. That is fine except that both Yarde and May can do that AND do a load of extra work and making things happen from nowhere.

To use your soccer analysis, a striker can score goals by goal hanging but if thats all they do then compared to a striker who scores a few through goal hanging, a few from the set piece and a few through individual brilliance, and who works hard in defense as well, who is the better player?


The other issue I have with Ashton is that he very rarely shows his best form against big teams. He broke the HCup scoring record this year (in a group containing Connacht and Zebre) but where was he in the final? Or the Premiership final for that matter.

yeah, i mean i was being a bit obtuse with the definition thing, but primary skills need to be the to the fore then everything else is a bonus... it's hard to argue that May is better at the primary winger objective of getting into a scoring position, wheras Ashton is often on the end of a move.

I like Ashton, i think he has played well the end of the season - i thought he made an impact when he got on - even if it was for a brisk cameo. I won't cry if he isn't picked though.

The thing i would say is he did exactly what you are saying may and yarde do in the Sarries semi - but england don't employ their winger like that.

Ollecrab and Austingir really letting the NZ fans down today . Probably just 13 year old kids that just found out their balls have dropped ........

just block them.
 
Last edited:
Thats the definition an average winger, if that is all they do. I think Tony's point was that was *all* Ashton did and usually all he does. He stays in space and wait for the rest of the team to do the work. That is fine except that both Yarde and May can do that AND do a load of extra work and making things happen from nowhere. .

My job here is done!!
 
Right after looking at the game my team- i also went with the 6/2 split
1- Marler 2- Webber 3-Wilson
4-Attwood 5-Parling
6-Haskell 8-Vunipola 7- Robshaw
9-Care 10-Burns
11-Yarde 12-Eastmond 13-Tuilagi 14-Foden
15- Brown
16-Hartley 17-Mullan 18-Sinkler 19-Lawes 20-Launchbury 21-Morgan 22-Dickson 23-Farrell
 
Decent to good pack performance, patchy to poor backs performance.

The difference in basic skills, execution and ruthlessness when presented with a chance is huge.

I don't get why we played the game so fast. We didn't look like we had the fitness to sustain it and it was always a plan that would favour them more than us. That was almost a worse call that the en masse backs rotation... almost.

Congrats to NZ, it was some game and they were deserved winners.

p.s.

Grounding - Don't think it should have been given

Yellow Card - Looked like a maul to me, but I don't think Peyper ever called one, at which point, it's not a maul... I can't recall him saying anything, including a warning to Farrell... I'm ok with it as a yellow card, but it's not at all consistent with the way the game's being reffed.

Tuilagi on the wing - Worked sorta ok, until you considered the lack of Tuilagi in the centres that ensued, and then it was not ok.
 
I had a 6/2 split on my 23 before the team was announced on the bases how the first test turned out. Give the 6 forwards 40 minutes. It's risque but but probably would be less messy than your usual 5 over 15-20 minutes.
 
Yellow Card - Looked like a maul to me, but I don't think Peyper ever called one, at which point, it's not a maul... I can't recall him saying anything, including a warning to Farrell... I'm ok with it as a yellow card, but it's not at all consistent with the way the game's being reffed.

And that's exactly why you shouldn't be ok with the card.
 
Top