[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (2nd Test)

[cardassian]

Yeah yellow card was a bad call. Thought England looked the better team for the first half. Then NZ looked better once Barrett was on.
What's with all the Farrell hate going on? I thought he outplayed Cruden consistently.
Terrible game by A Smith. Thought he had a real shocker and should have been subbed earlier.
Overall England looking really strong for next years RWC.

 

[nzlizard]

Well England were beaten by the better team on the day.

They scored early and lacked the ability and mental fortitude to finish the job. Manu getting pawned by Ben Smith was a key moment, had England scored then momentum may have taken them home.

Mike Brown is a **** fullback, I am sorry but all this talk of him being the worlds best is a joke, found out of position when it counts and poor general play, Ben Smith outplayed him in every aspect of the game.

May have only been 1 point on the score board but there was Englands no try that was awarded so for me the game was more comfortable then the scoreboard showed.

Key things I took from the test:

1. Ben Smith has to be the starting #15 for the AB"s to awesome to not have.

2. Barrett deserves a start based on current form, although I am happy for Cruden to start as I believe in Hansens policy of giving his preferred players the opportunity to play into form.

3. Retallick is awesome, last night is how he plays for the Chiefs for such a young guy he has got the goods, where was Whitelock last night?

4. Jane had a bad 1st half, but I like the fact that Hansen would have said something like "get back out there and do your job" - he showed good faith in his choices and doesn't have knee jerk reactions

5. Feel sorry for Messam, he is awesome but when Read comes back he will drop out and Kaino will be #6, rightly so though as he is a beast and when Cane is fit he may drop out of the match 23 altogether. He has proved in these 2 tests he is a world class player.

6 Aaron Smith needs to work on his box kick or get shields into place.

At the end of the day was a good AB's victory and they will only get better.

 

[barkinghooker]

I haven't really heard people say Mike Brown is world class, but certainly in the form of his life but he looked tired. 30 something games this season has took it's toll on him. Abs were super today but a 1 point 'thrashing' is something we can take positives from.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I haven't really heard people say Mike Brown is world class, but certainly in the form of his life but he looked tired. 30 something games this season has took it's toll on him. Abs were super today but a 1 point 'thrashing' is something we can take positives from.

To be fair, in the 6N Mike Brown was pretty phenomenal. His form has slipped against NZ for whatever reason.

 

[Tony Manx]

To be fair, in the 6N Mike Brown was pretty phenomenal. His form has slipped against NZ for whatever reason.

To be even fairer....Brown was the player of the EYOT AND 6N this season and was, without doubt, world class in doing that. That being said, he has been a caricature of himself since he arrived in the Land of the Big White Cloud............shame for him really and would add that he was never one of my favourite players until he managed to control his over aggressive tendencies.

 

[Tmartin995]

To be fair, in the 6N Mike Brown was pretty phenomenal. His form has slipped against NZ for whatever reason.

I think he, amongst others, looked very tired today after the long season today. To be honest Brown, didn't look right after the body check in the first half - he almost botched that try by not wanting to dive for the line when he beat Ben Smith. Binny also looked tired when he came on - didn't seem to carry with the same impetus as usual.

The midfield defense was incredibly average today, especially compared to last week. Too many people going high for the ball rather than just dropping the man instantly (something Burns and Eastmond did excellently last weekend).

 

[Big Ewis]

Mike Brown ? He's the best fullback in the world after Folau and Ben Smith. There's even a moment when I thought he was second best in the world. But like a Brice Dulin who loves to counter attack with ball in hand, beats defenders, goes on runs etc...he's not a great kicker and could improve from other less raw, more accomplished guys like HP or Kearney.

About the AB's, I really think their weak link has been Liam Messam honestly. I think he's just a class below the other All-Blacks and with Kieran Read returning it'll be Kaino-Mccaw-Read again and that's going to hurt badly. Very excited to see what Read's got in store for the world next week, his game is absolutely beautiful.

 

[austingtir]

I think with Mike Brown he's operating with two other very young wingers and he's playing against some of the premier players in the world (who have got a lot of good rugby under there belts) from what I have seen of him you guys have a very good fullback there. The AB's back three even with Jane there just look like more of a unit thats working together to find gaps and defuse high balls. For me anytime the ball went high the England back 3 still looks rather uncomfortable. I was very surprised in this game that we did not do it more than we did.

Even if the England forwards do get a slight advantage over us if we had Carter in the team I would not be to worried about it going forward as I feel his tactical kicking will find this England team out pretty badly. And Ben Smith once he gets settled with be even more of a threat than he is now.

 

[smartcooky]

Some of the postings by some of my fellow kiwis is in this thread is appallingly cringe-worthy. I thought for a moment I had clicked on the wrong bookmark and ended up at Planet Rugby with all the morons!

Not looking at anyone in particular but tone it down guys FFS, some of you are an embarrassment

 

[nzlizard]

About the AB's, I really think their weak link has been Liam Messam honestly. I think he's just a class below the other All-Blacks and with Kieran Read returning it'll be Kaino-Mccaw-Read again and that's going to hurt badly. Very excited to see what Read's got in store for the world next week, his game is absolutely beautiful.

Yup, he is not a Kaino or Read but who in the world is.

Read is the best 8 and Kaino is the best 6 even though he doesn't play there, give him the rugby championship and he will be considered the best.

Pretty hard for Messam when you up against that, have no doubt that Messam would start for most other countries in the 6 jersey.

 

[austingtir]

Some of the postings by some of my fellow kiwis is in this thread is appallingly cringe-worthy. I thought for a moment I had clicked on the wrong bookmark and ended up at Planet Rugby with all the morons!

Not looking at anyone in particular but tone it down guys FFS, some of you are an embarrassment

Not that I dont agree with you but I have to say some of the comments by some international posters brought this on themselves alot earlier in the thread. Fair enough to have some confidence in your team or willing the AB's to get beaten but some postings were just as ridiculous as anything myself and others have posted.

 

[smartcooky]

Not that I dont agree with you but I have to say some of the comments by some international posters brought this on themselves alot earlier in the thread. Fair enough to have some confidence in your team or willing the AB's to get beaten but some postings were just as ridiculous as anything myself and others have posted.

Fair enough, but their posts just make me roll my eyes. There is no reason we have to stoop to their level.

As the late great comedian George Carlin once said (in a paraphrase of an earlier quote from Samuel Clemens) "'Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

 

[Wally]

The All Blacks aura is fading, fading, fading...

 

[RoosTah]

The All Blacks aura is fading, fading, fading...

After watching us last night I still think a "fading" All Blacks side may have too much fire power for us. The All Blacks forwards completely dominated the supposedly now full strength England last night, who looked like they'd emptied the tank after their dominant opening 20 minutes. After that it was all NZ right up until a couple of fairly lucky consolation tries (one of which shouldn't have been awarded).

 

[nzlizard]

The All Blacks aura is fading, fading, fading...

Least we have an aura to fade.

 

[austingtir]

Least we have an aura to fade.

Exactly this thread has got to be the most straw clutching thread in the history of TRF.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ahh... the precious...

 

[Jaguares]

After watching us last night I still think a "fading" All Blacks side may have too much fire power for us. The All Blacks forwards completely dominated the supposedly now full strength England last night, who looked like they'd emptied the tank after their dominant opening 20 minutes. After that it was all NZ right up until a couple of fairly lucky consolation tries (one of which shouldn't have been awarded).

If the game is today, Wallabies should press to Cory Jane. But for TRC Charles Piutai will be ready

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Right, so I've watched the game now:
How is that not a penalty against Ben Smith when he takes down Tuilagi after his 70m run? There's no clear release: He has at least one hand on him at all times before going for the ball.
Genuine question.
Even if he didn't jackle the ball (looks like he did) he still got up and cleared out Brown, without "releasing" Tuilagi.


Brown is clearly held up for his try as well. No doubt in my mind.
Maybe the referee's felt sorry for him because Brown could've easily scored if he hadn't have cut back inside.

 

[austingtir]

Right, so I've watched the game now:
How is that not a penalty against Ben Smith when he takes down Tuilagi after his 70m run? There's no clear release: He has at least one hand on him at all times before going for the ball.
Genuine question.
Even if he didn't jackle the ball (looks like he did) he still got up and cleared out Brown, without "releasing" Tuilagi.


Brown is clearly held up for his try as well. No doubt in my mind.
Maybe the referee's felt sorry for him because Brown could've easily scored if he hadn't have cut back inside.

I dunno about the Ben Smith one to me he got to his feet tuilagi messed around with the placing of the ball sort of repositions himself Smith takes a few steps to reposition himself over the ball (from the correct side I might add that he probably didnt even need to do).... Jeez looks like pretty text book stuff from any world number 7 if you ask me. Iv seen ones where the tackled player doesnt even get the slightest chance to place the ball and someones snaffled it that imo is a bigger issue than what your going on about.

The Brown one really annoys me because there were two errors by the Ref one after the other. The ruck before that the NZ players wanted to come around every one of them saw the ball was out but the ref was like nah its not... everybody could clearly see it was out.... imo that was enough to put our defence out of alignment... which leads to the try.