Aviva Premiership Final - Tigers vs Saints

[racingmetrofan]

Oh, if only it was that simple



Expressing your frustration by calling the referee a fecking cheat is not acceptable on any rugby field anywhere in the world.

You say that to me, youre gone, final or not, captain or not.



Frankly, I think your attitude stinks. If yours was the general attitude of the majority of rugby players, what you would find is that the hundreds of thousands of VOLUNTEER referees who give up their weekends so that people like YOU can play, would have second thoughts about whether or not what they are doing is worthwhile.

People with your attitude do damage to the game!

EDIT: It should be noted that Hartley ought no be surprised. Two minutes before the red card, Hartley swore at Barnes, and Barnes warned him not to speak to him that way. That Hartley kept doing it shows me that he was either stupid or can't help himself. Whatever, he was the engineer of his own downfall!!

er, yeah, but the 1000s of volunteer refs give up their weekends to ref thousands of volunteer rugby players

This is the point that I made in an earlier post, the professional game is not the amateur game! If you ref academy rugby on your Sunday mornings for the fun of it you are entitled to respect, I entirely agree with that.

In contrast when you are reffing the Aviva premiership final, you don't get any 'respect', you just have an onus not to ruin the game and make the right calls as close to 100% of the time as possible.

The two ideas aren't incompatible.

 

[Peat]

I am with smartcooky, cmac, and anyone else arguing for the continued enforcement of respect for refs in our game. I believe strongly that in terms of both spectacle and ethics it is the correct move; I do not enjoy watching the way professional footballers treat refs, I do not believe people in that circumstance should be treated like that. Everyone knows its how the laws work, the vast majority of us can follow them.

And I have no real wish to debate further than that - simply to point out to racingmetro that his views are at odds with the majority of the rugby community.

 

[munstermuffin]

Watched it again and I have to say I thought Barnes did well in middle yesterday. No ref want to send anyone off and Hartley in my opinion went beyond reason. He was mouthing off a few times at Barnes through 1st half but he can't use frustration over 22 incident as excuse as Barnes repeatedly told them not to do it. And Hartley in my opinion is more a tool because as club captain he disgraced his teammates and if they kept 15 on the field I think they could've won.
Also as I'm a fan of his I must say Ben Foden is a class act and yesterday I saw him get to the form that makes him in my eyes be England's #1 fullback

 

[smartcooky]

In contrast when you are reffing the Aviva premiership final, you don't get any 'respect', you just have an onus not to ruin the game and make the right calls as close to 100% of the time as possible.

The referee did not ruin the game.

One person, and only one person, was responsible for Hartley getting sent off.

Hartley!

End of!

 

[IRFU]

11 weeks apparently.

https://twitter.com/philedwardssky

EDIT: Confirmed on Sky.

 

[racingmetrofan]

Disgusting. More than double what Manu got for smashing up Ashton in 2011. Says it all really...

 

[Getofmeland]

Disgusting. More than double what Manu got for smashing up Ashton in 2011. Says it all really...

I think its absolutely the right call... You respect your Match Officials, that is one of the great things that always shines though with Rugby when its compared to other sports. The fact is he has called the Ref a cheat and challenged his integrity, not something to be done on the pitch or in the manner he did it in, it is something that can be dealt with after the game, he made a stupid mistake, he keeps making stupid mistakes and keeps re-offending time and time again, this is why the Ban is double what Manu got, repeat offences require longer bans. He has let his team and fans down and he has let the Lions down.

 

[racingmetrofan]

I think its absolutely the right call... You respect your Match Officials, that is one of the great things that always shines though with Rugby when its compared to other sports. The fact is he has called the Ref a cheat and challenged his integrity, not something to be done on the pitch or in the manner he did it in, it is something that can be dealt with after the game, he made a stupid mistake, he keeps making stupid mistakes and keeps re-offending time and time again, this is why the Ban is double what Manu got, repeat offences require longer bans. He has let his team and fans down and he has let the Lions down.

Sticks and stones imo, I find it utterly alarming and disturbing that throwing punches that can kill someone merit a considerably lesser punishment than swearing at someone. Aside from the 1 gouging offense, its fair to say that Hartley has never done anything life threatening. But he's vilified more than the spear tackle, stamping and punching players.

 

[Getofmeland]

I also feel that this shouldn't be an 11 Week Ban it should be set out in this format:

11 Club Match Ban with a Ban on International Selection until the Ban has been served...

Sticks and stones imo, I find it utterly alarming and disturbing that throwing punches that can kill someone merit a considerably lesser punishment than swearing at someone. Aside from the 1 gouging offense, its fair to say that Hartley has never done anything life threatening. But he's vilified more than the spear tackle, stamping and punching players.

Ummm

2012 - 8 week ban for biting Stephen Ferris
2012 - 2 week ban for striking Rory Best...

Yeah he's an absolute angel....

 

[dullonien]

er, yeah, but the 1000s of volunteer refs give up their weekends to ref thousands of volunteer rugby players

This is the point that I made in an earlier post, the professional game is not the amateur game! If you ref academy rugby on your Sunday mornings for the fun of it you are entitled to respect, I entirely agree with that.

In contrast when you are reffing the Aviva premiership final, you don't get any 'respect', you just have an onus not to ruin the game and make the right calls as close to 100% of the time as possible.

The two ideas aren't incompatible.

So you don't think young amateur players are influenced by the professional players they aspire to? If professional players are allowed to disrespect the ref, then how long until the amateur players do exactly the same.

Seriously, you're attitude really does stink.

 

[racingmetrofan]

So you don't think young amateur players are influenced by the professional players they aspire to? If professional players are allowed to disrespect the ref, then how long until the amateur players do exactly the same.

Seriously, you're attitude really does stink.

Well for one it only came to attention because Barnes pinged him for it!

Secondly I don't think players are that influenced tbh, again the difference between amateur and professional standards. I dunno where this attitude comes from that so and so playing in the under 9s is going to suddenly turn into an extra from the football factory...

 

[racingmetrofan]

I also feel that this shouldn't be an 11 Week Ban it should be set out in this format:

11 Club Match Ban with a Ban on International Selection until the Ban has been served...



Ummm

2012 - 8 week ban for biting Stephen Ferris
2012 - 2 week ban for striking Rory Best...

Yeah he's an absolute angel....

Weird that he gets more for verbal than any of his violent offenses. Weird that he gets 8 weeks for 'biting' someone's hand thats in his mouth. tbh the whole citing/banning system is outdated and should be revamped.

 

[lynam1104]

There was no way in hell Manu's punches on Ashton were life threatening, they were fairly weak punches not that hes unable to throw a good punch his stance was bad meaning he lacked power. If they had an effect there would have been more repercussions for Tuilangi. I think Hartley's ban is right his record is bad and a precedent needs to be set.

 

[Getofmeland]

The reason why Barnes carded him, was because its actually against the rules of Rugby... So therefore if he hadn't of done it, I suspect Leicester would be up in arms over it... so to blame the ref for doing his job is an absolute joke...

 

[dullonien]

I dunno where this attitude comes from that so and so playing in the under 9s is going to suddenly turn into an extra from the football factory...

So I don't see young boys copying Christiano Ronaldo's haircut and rolling around on the floor every time they are touched when kicking a ball around with their mates? Come off it, kids are hugely impressionable, and sports stars are often many kids idols growing up.

 

[munstermuffin]

Well for one it only came to attention because Barnes pinged him for it!

Secondly I don't think players are that influenced tbh, again the difference between amateur and professional standards. I dunno where this attitude comes from that so and so playing in the under 9s is going to suddenly turn into an extra from the football factory...

So just out of curiosity are you saying this only an issue because Barnes addressed it and acted??
Barnes was correct to punish and the 11 weeks was correct. I've no problem with punches like Manu as he was punished fairly and it was on the field but the abuse verbally of authority is in my opinion more serious and sets a disgusting trend if that was let off.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Why should a verbal infringement be seen as a lesser punishment to a physical one? Current laws on verbal abuse are in some cases more harsh than physical abuse. For instance by saying something in public against the state or country can be seen as treason and is given the equal amount of punishment as for instance planting a bomb in a state building...

The punishment is correct, the manner in which it was dealt with was correct (and swift i might add). And Hartley has been known for his indescretions, both verbally and physically. Wasn't he the guy that bad-mouthed the refs and the Boks last year during the England tour to SA??

We might not like Barnes as a ref and many New Zealanders would agree that he is a cheat, but it doesn't give any player the right to challenge his authority on the field during play, that's just looking for trouble.

Hartley got what he deserved and his punishment is that he'll miss the Lions Tour.

 

[racingmetrofan]

So just out of curiosity are you saying this only an issue because Barnes addressed it and acted??
Barnes was correct to punish and the 11 weeks was correct. I've no problem with punches like Manu as he was punished fairly and it was on the field but the abuse verbally of authority is in my opinion more serious and sets a disgusting trend if that was let off.

Well Barnes did say that if he wasn't 100% certain that Hartley directed it at him, he wouldn't have done anything about it - so its a question of his perception. Equally it appears Hartley didn't get any reduction in ban length because he didn't 'plead guilty'. So basically Hartley's offense was that the ref percieved he was insulted, and Hartley maintains he didn't insult him.

I dunno how you can say that verbal abuse of authority is more serious than violence, I and pretty much any rugby spectator and player would prefer to be sworn at/have someone swear at the ref than be spear tackled/punched in the face/stamped on. To say otherwise is both delusional and dangerous.

 

[racingmetrofan]

So I don't see young boys copying Christiano Ronaldo's haircut and rolling around on the floor every time they are touched when kicking a ball around with their mates? Come off it, kids are hugely impressionable, and sports stars are often many kids idols growing up.

On that basis Manu Tulagi would/should have been given a far greater ban, given that one video of him knocking Ashton about has about 2.75 million youtube views. Or Warburton for his spear tackle.

If kids are that impressionable, and we want to make the game better for everyone, it makes sense to paint violent, dangerous and malicious play as the worst thing one can do on a rugby pitch. One way to do this is to make sure bans for far less dangerous and damaging offenses don't outstrip those that are violent.

 

[racingmetrofan]

There was no way in hell Manu's punches on Ashton were life threatening, they were fairly weak punches not that hes unable to throw a good punch his stance was bad meaning he lacked power. If they had an effect there would have been more repercussions for Tuilangi. I think Hartley's ban is right his record is bad and a precedent needs to be set.

lol. Now a 17 stone bloke punching someone as hard as they can is 'weak' and 'never life threatening'. Great! I'm sure every red blooded rugby player would take a punch like that from Tulagi just for lols! But we'd better all watch out for those moral evils of talking back to the ref, massive threat to the game they are!