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Ireland v England, 10/02/13

England won because they played the conditions far, far better.

We can sit on here and go on about coaches all day as a means to shield the players...


But ultimately - if the Irish players didn't have the wit to adapt a territorial game when the ball is a bar of soap, then that leaves them as culpable in the defeat as the coaching team. If they didn't have the skills to execute the territorial game better than the English players, then where does that leave them?


You do the English a disservice by suggesting they somehow won despite being inferior. Better team won. End of.




[Damn that hurt.:lol:]
 
What summed up the whole Irish approach in the game was when the Irish scrum shoved the england scrum, and after celebrating briefly Murray sprinted something like 40metres to the england players shouting f words to any england player making eye contact then stopping and shouting "we coming for you you f*** blah blah blah" to the robshaw/wood etc, who were standing, about to call all players in a huddle. I thought what a twat. And this wind-up stuff was going on all the time (we all saw healy and his red mist).


That mindset said everything for me. The England players just had more more intelligence/less emotion/disipline/composure in their play.
 
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Well like I said, I can't go back to unknowing what I've accumulated as knowledge about that one aspect of England. Every country is stupid in that its ppl are proud beyond rationality, and are emotionally linked to their history, culture etc.., and such a tiny portion of the world population is truly objective, and genuinely trying to be. It's all so much more comforting to think "we're the best because...".
French ppl are terribly chauvinistic too, but then again they're self-loathing in the most open, and exaggerated way. Not comparable.
But there's a very special pride in England. It's more than standard patriotism like nosevi suggests. That's just trivializing something that isn't trivial, banal. There's just something about England and how they consider themselves. All so utterly obvious. But that's that...

And for the guy who said "so basically England has no talent and Ire Wal Fra do, and we're not Grand Slamming and blah blah" no dude, NOBODY ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD said anything like that. England may very well slam, there's OBVIOUSLY talent there, certainly excellent skill at some positions, and obviously a lot of strength from the forwards in the scrum and those rucks; and England play well as a team, AND; and I think this point is strongly underrated; cold-blooded.
Us French and then the Celts (well, everyone but England) have shown this tournament, as usually, we're "restless", clumsy, a bit out of control. England had a bit of it against Ireland, but nowhere near as much as Ireland.

England can play a standard game, they'll almost ALWAYS have this: great intensity and commitment/strong work ethic, less mistakes than the other 6N side, the forwards and scrum.
If they're focused: they've got strong defense, good kicking and pts stacking up on penalties, quick ball out of rucks and fast meter-gaining, clean passing.
 
yoe91 said:
Well like I said, I can't go back to unknowing what I've accumulated as knowledge about that one aspect of England. Every country is stupid in that its ppl are proud beyond rationality, and are emotionally linked to their history, culture etc.., and such a tiny portion of the world population is truly objective, and genuinely trying to be. It's all so much more comforting to think "we're the best because...".
French ppl are terribly chauvinistic too, but then again they're self-loathing in the most open, and exaggerated way. Not comparable.
But there's a very special pride in England. It's more than standard patriotism like nosevi suggests. That's just trivializing something that isn't trivial, banal. There's just something about England and how they consider themselves. All so utterly obvious. But that's that...

And for the guy who said "so basically England has no talent and Ire Wal Fra do, and we're not Grand Slamming and blah blah" no dude, NOBODY ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD said anything like that. England may very well slam, there's OBVIOUSLY talent there, certainly excellent skill at some positions, and obviously a lot of strength from the forwards in the scrum and those rucks; and England play well as a team, AND; and I think this point is strongly underrated; cold-blooded.
Us French and then the Celts (well, everyone but England) have shown this tournament, as usually, we're "restless", clumsy, a bit out of control. England had a bit of it against Ireland, but nowhere near as much as Ireland.

England can play a standard game, they'll almost ALWAYS have this: great intensity and commitment/strong work ethic, less mistakes than the other 6N side, the forwards and scrum.
If they're focused: they've got strong defense, good kicking and pts stacking up on penalties, quick ball out of rucks and fast meter-gaining, clean passing.
Click to expand...


I think you are mistaking player quality for international stature to be honest . For me robshaw is the best 7 in Europe at this minute admittedly fetching skills not as good but ball carrying leadership tackling etc is second to none but doesn't get the regognition from non English fans because of the small amount of caps he's played. As far as overhyping a team I live in Wales and last year I had to put up with numerous welshmen saying after the first game against Ireland in Dublin "that's it he grand slam is ours" I know they were right but never the less very arrogant and disrespectful to all the other nations . So basically what I'm saying is every country has arrogant people . I'm not so sure you aren't 1 of them from france but don't tarnish all the English with the same brush .
 
yoe is just bitter because France didnt beat Italy, its a perfectly normal reaction to have when you are playing crap.
 
Tallshort said:
yoe is just bitter because France didnt beat Italy, its a perfectly normal reaction to have when you are playing crap.
Click to expand...

Do you not realise that Yoe is not insulting England in anyway? He's calling them a low mistake side, something that a lot of pundits have said about England, he's complimenting their incredibly disciplined structure and the way they play as a team. France are playing crap and Yoe has admitted it and is venting his frustration that an inferior group of players and yes England, in the majority of positions, do have worse players than France, are playing much better rugby through great structure and out thinking the other side. It's how they beat Ireland and it's how they beat the All Blacks and it worked against them in the summer and the earlier November series matches because the players hadn't bought into it. I don't agree with him that England can only play boring but they are strongest when they do and always have been.
 
Maverick1987 said:
I think you are mistaking player quality for international stature to be honest . For me robshaw is the best 7 in Europe at this minute admittedly fetching skills not as good but ball carrying leadership tackling etc is second to none but doesn't get the regognition from non English fans because of the small amount of caps he's played. As far as overhyping a team I live in Wales and last year I had to put up with numerous welshmen saying after the first game against Ireland in Dublin "that's it he grand slam is ours" I know they were right but never the less very arrogant and disrespectful to all the other nations . So basically what I'm saying is every country has arrogant people . I'm not so sure you aren't 1 of them from france but don't tarnish all the English with the same brush .
Click to expand...

Everything you're saying is true, but TRUST ME, it's not for the sake of being right or wrong, I couldn't care less about being wrong; if I'm wrong I'm wrong; but trust me friend, you don't see it.

Tallshort said:
yoe is just bitter because France didnt beat Italy, its a perfectly normal reaction to have when you are playing crap.
Click to expand...

awwwwwwwwww :lol:

and
cmac95:
well there you go...maybe through your words, my point will transpire better somehow.
I don't think they play 100% boring Rugby either...
 
yoe91 said:
But there's a very special pride in England. It's more than standard patriotism like nosevi suggests. That's just trivializing something that isn't trivial, banal. There's just something about England and how they consider themselves. All so utterly obvious. But that's that...
Click to expand...
Cool, negatively stereotype a whole nation. No matter whether they're from the most reclusive parts of the Lake District to the busiest suburb of London, ALL ENGLISH PEOPLE CONSIDER THEMSELVES IN WAY X. I can promise you, TV doesn't give the most accurate depiction of England and all of its variety (same as any other nation).
 
Apart from Londoners though. And Northerners. You can forget about the Midlanders also.



And as for the South West, well...
 
j'nuh said:
Cool, negatively stereotype a whole nation. No matter whether they're from the most reclusive parts of the Lake District to the busiest suburb of London, ALL ENGLISH PEOPLE CONSIDER THEMSELVES IN WAY X. I can promise you, TV doesn't give the most accurate depiction of England and all of its variety (same as any other nation).
Click to expand...

I of course don't mean all English ppl. I don't mean to be negative, ever, but a fact is just a neutral thing. Yes it's a fact, I'll repeat this: I've seen it, heard it, felt it a million times without any bias but there's a certain point where we come to certain conclusions in this life we things just constantly happen again and again and again and again...

I base this on things that are not TV, I know better for you see...I'm not COMPLETELY STUPID.
 
yoe91 said:
I of course don't mean all English ppl. I don't mean to be negative, ever, but a fact is just a neutral thing. Yes it's a fact, I'll repeat this: I've seen it, heard it, felt it a million times without any bias but there's a certain point where we come to certain conclusions in this life we things just constantly happen again and again and again and again...
Click to expand...

Bleddy hell!
Is there an antipodean type 'cultural cringe' going on with you yoe91?
Flattered to think that the foibles of us English takes up so much of your time!:)
 
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My friend has a girlfriend who went to England, I've watched three Hugh Grant films and I own a Garry Glitter album. I think I'm pretty much an expert on the English. All terrible people.
 
Maverick1987 said:
I think you are mistaking player quality for international stature to be honest . For me robshaw is the best 7 in Europe at this minute admittedly fetching skills not as good but ball carrying leadership tackling etc is second to none but doesn't get the regognition from non English fans because of the small amount of caps he's played.
Click to expand...

Imo, that makes him one of the best 6's in Europe, playing out of position at 7. And he's getting a lot of recognition from all quarters atm.
 

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