New Zealand Maori v Ireland - Friday 18th (19.35 NZ/8.35 Irish) - Rotorua Int Stad

[ranger]

Just finished watching a replay of the game, as I missed it on Friday night. I felt the Maori were a bit lucky to keep 15 players on the park, as there were a number of repeated infringements (from Messem in particular). It was good to see an improved Maori scrum, though I think it may have helped that the opposition props were scrummaging legally this week.

On Hosea Gear: I'm still not convinced he should be in the AB's - he showed nothing in this game that he didn't show in the Super 14. He is outstanding with the ball in hand, but the rest of his game still needs work. He needs to increase his work rate around he field, and work on catching the high ball. In addition his defensive positioning is still poor - when he actually is in position to make a tackle he invariable makes them, but he doesn't seem to put himself in position to make the tackles. He certainly wouldn't disgrace an All Black Jersey - Jane and Sivivatu (when fit) are clearly the best two wins in the country, but I don't see much between the next best wingers - the likes of Rococoko, Guilford, Hosea Gear, and Ben Smith.

What does Guildford offer? Gear may not excel around the field, but he sure isn't a liability there. Gear is the most destructive runner with ball in hand, and he isnt markably worse in the other categories. why not just put him in. Its not like Guildford is bringing anything extrea to the table

 

[lynam1104]

witch Gear is this Rico or Hosea(sp?)

 

[cyRil]

Hosea. His younger brother (I think!) I've thought he was brilliant for the last 5 years really, but he never seems to get the national recognition I think he deserves.

 

[Conal]

horsea rico moved to worcester but now gone to japan after worcester got relegated

 

[nickdnz]

What does Guildford offer? Gear may not excel around the field, but he sure isn't a liability there. Gear is the most destructive runner with ball in hand, and he isnt markably worse in the other categories. why not just put him in. Its not like Guildford is bringing anything extrea to the table

Agreed. I can understand in some positions like fly half, where it is often better to have an all round player that is very solid in all aspects of the game, as apposed to a great runner but a poor kicker, however if there is one position you can afford to take a bit of a risk in, for the sake of attack, it is the wing. It's all very nice if your wing can jump 5m in the air to catch a high ball, however if they can't out speed everyone to score a try, what's the point? The wings is supposed to be the biggest attacking threat, and Hosea is just that. Even at his worse though, I agree he doesn't always get himself in the perfect defencive position, but he's never that far off. He's not like Lauaki, who isn't destructive but useless in every other aspect. He does deserve his chance.

Guildford is alright, he is a very safe option at wing, but he doesn't have that spark and that risk that players like Gear, Rokocko, Sivivatu and Masaga all offer, and Gear is probably the most in-form winger of the lot, and if he is given the backline of the All Blacks to work with, he'll really tear it up, and these June tests were the perfect time to test that. I do wish people would not mention Ben Smith as a wing. He can catch, kick and pass well, but he is one of the slowest wingers in New Zealand. I think he's a better 12 option from what I saw of him in the NZ Baabaa's.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads in a way isn't it good Ireland are loosing on tour as well we all agree we can recover but also it will open managements teams that well some changes have to be made

 

[coonor]

My team for the Aussie

1) Healy
2) Flannery
3) Buckley
4) O'callaghan
5) Touhy
6) Henry
7) Jennings
8) D. Wallace
9) O'leary
10) Sexton
11) Trimble
12) P.Wallace
13) BOD
14) Bowe
15) Murphy

16) Court
17) Cronin
18) M. O'driscoll
19) Ronan
20) Redan
21) O'gara
22) Kearney

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Lads in a way isn't it good Ireland are loosing on tour as well we all agree we can recover but also it will open managements teams that well some changes have to be made

Yeah, I love losing

 

[Darwin]

Agreed. I can understand in some positions like fly half, where it is often better to have an all round player that is very solid in all aspects of the game, as apposed to a great runner but a poor kicker, however if there is one position you can afford to take a bit of a risk in, for the sake of attack, it is the wing. It's all very nice if your wing can jump 5m in the air to catch a high ball, however if they can't out speed everyone to score a try, what's the point? The wings is supposed to be the biggest attacking threat, and Hosea is just that. Even at his worse though, I agree he doesn't always get himself in the perfect defencive position, but he's never that far off. He's not like Lauaki, who isn't destructive but useless in every other aspect. He does deserve his chance.

Guildford is alright, he is a very safe option at wing, but he doesn't have that spark and that risk that players like Gear, Rokocko, Sivivatu and Masaga all offer, and Gear is probably the most in-form winger of the lot, and if he is given the backline of the All Blacks to work with, he'll really tear it up, and these June tests were the perfect time to test that. I do wish people would not mention Ben Smith as a wing. He can catch, kick and pass well, but he is one of the slowest wingers in New Zealand. I think he's a better 12 option from what I saw of him in the NZ Baabaa's.

While I agree that you need to have some spark in your wings, I think you are underestimating what Guildford brings to the table. He is probably the best kick chaser in the country, runs excellent lines, is very fast, and always seems to put himself in the right place to score tries. Though many people claim he is 'just a finisher' you have to wonder why he scores so many tries - being in the right place at the right time may seem like luck, but either Guildford is incredibly lucky or there is some skill in turning up in the right place. For example in last years Air New Zealand Cup Guildford scored 13 tries, while the other winger (Jason Kupa) scored 3. Gear undoubabtly scores tries that Guildford would not score. However Guildford scores tries that Gear would not score, by chasing through kicks or running the right lines in support - while these tries may not be as spectacular as running through 4 players to score, they are still worth the same number of points!

I don't know how you couldn't consider Ben Smith as a wing - he was selected as an All Black in that position last year, and played 11/13 games for the Highlanders in that position! He didn't standout for the Highlanders on the wing because he seldom got the ball (and the only times he really got the ball he was on the back foot) - he naturally looked better when he played at centre and fullback as he actually got to touch the ball. I think you underestimate his pace as well - he is very quick, I would certainly not consider him a slow wing. While I agree his future may be in the midfield, at the moment he should be considered as a wing/fullback capable of playing in the midfield, until he actually gets some extended gametime in the centre at provincial of super rugby level (though he has played almost exclusively at centre in club rugby for the last few years).

It will be interesting who the AB selectors pick come tri-nations time, as they will be extending there squad to 30, and therefore another outside back is likely to be added. Gear is in a better position than other contenders (Ben Smith, Ranger, Wulf etc) to push for this spot as he is playing high rugby every week at the moment.

 

[nickdnz]

While I agree that you need to have some spark in your wings, I think you are underestimating what Guildford brings to the table. He is probably the best kick chaser in the country, runs excellent lines, is very fast, and always seems to put himself in the right place to score tries. Though many people claim he is 'just a finisher' you have to wonder why he scores so many tries - being in the right place at the right time may seem like luck, but either Guildford is incredibly lucky or there is some skill in turning up in the right place. For example in last years Air New Zealand Cup Guildford scored 13 tries, while the other winger (Jason Kupa) scored 3. Gear undoubabtly scores tries that Guildford would not score. However Guildford scores tries that Gear would not score, by chasing through kicks or running the right lines in support - while these tries may not be as spectacular as running through 4 players to score, they are still worth the same number of points!

I don't know how you couldn't consider Ben Smith as a wing - he was selected as an All Black in that position last year, and played 11/13 games for the Highlanders in that position! He didn't standout for the Highlanders on the wing because he seldom got the ball (and the only times he really got the ball he was on the back foot) - he naturally looked better when he played at centre and fullback as he actually got to touch the ball. I think you underestimate his pace as well - he is very quick, I would certainly not consider him a slow wing. While I agree his future may be in the midfield, at the moment he should be considered as a wing/fullback capable of playing in the midfield, until he actually gets some extended gametime in the centre at provincial of super rugby level (though he has played almost exclusively at centre in club rugby for the last few years).

It will be interesting who the AB selectors pick come tri-nations time, as they will be extending there squad to 30, and therefore another outside back is likely to be added. Gear is in a better position than other contenders (Ben Smith, Ranger, Wulf etc) to push for this spot as he is playing high rugby every week at the moment.

I'm not saying Guildford is poor, but it is a preferance choice. Guildford reminds me of a young Doug Howlett, where as Hosea is more of a Rokocoko/Lomu type winger. I do think the latter can be more important as when a team really needs something special to happen, it may come down to one brillaint play. It's not luck the Guildford finishes tries, but I don't think he can make something from nothing like a few other wingers in NZ can.

I still think Ben Smith is going to be a better centre. He is not as fast from what I've seen as most NZ wingers, and Vanikolo looked likwe the fastest winger for the Highlander (if not inconsistant). He does seem fast enough to be a quick mind fielder and has all the other skills as well.

 

[admartian]

Agreed. I can understand in some positions like fly half, where it is often better to have an all round player that is very solid in all aspects of the game, as apposed to a great runner but a poor kicker, however if there is one position you can afford to take a bit of a risk in, for the sake of attack, it is the wing. It's all very nice if your wing can jump 5m in the air to catch a high ball, however if they can't out speed everyone to score a try, what's the point? The wings is supposed to be the biggest attacking threat, and Hosea is just that. Even at his worse though, I agree he doesn't always get himself in the perfect defencive position, but he's never that far off. He's not like Lauaki, who isn't destructive but useless in every other aspect. He does deserve his chance.

Guildford is alright, he is a very safe option at wing, but he doesn't have that spark and that risk that players like Gear, Rokocko, Sivivatu and Masaga all offer, and Gear is probably the most in-form winger of the lot, and if he is given the backline of the All Blacks to work with, he'll really tear it up, and these June tests were the perfect time to test that. I do wish people would not mention Ben Smith as a wing. He can catch, kick and pass well, but he is one of the slowest wingers in New Zealand. I think he's a better 12 option from what I saw of him in the NZ Baabaa's.

Yeah, I think Hosea, right now and possibly alongside Siti, is the most explosive runner we have. I think he and Joe can break/bust the most tackles and create 2nd-phase situations. I believe he definitely warrants consideration (for Tri-Nations) over the likes of Ben Smith, Rudi Wulf etc. because I think those guys don't offer too much in the way of explosive running.

 

[Darwin]

I'm not saying Guildford is poor, but it is a preferance choice. Guildford reminds me of a young Doug Howlett, where as Hosea is more of a Rokocoko/Lomu type winger. I do think the latter can be more important as when a team really needs something special to happen, it may come down to one brillaint play. It's not luck the Guildford finishes tries, but I don't think he can make something from nothing like a few other wingers in NZ can.

I still think Ben Smith is going to be a better centre. He is not as fast from what I've seen as most NZ wingers, and Vanikolo looked likwe the fastest winger for the Highlander (if not inconsistant). He does seem fast enough to be a quick mind fielder and has all the other skills as well.

I agree it really is a preference choice. I was just pointing out what Guildford has to offer - it was probably more in response to Rangers comment of "What does Guildford offer?". While I agree games may come down to one brilliant play, equally it may come down to one mistake (e.g dropping a high ball, not being in right position defensively). Anyways, hopefully Guildford gets a start next week to show what he's got at test level.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads what about reports today that Gert Smal has said Varley could start at hooker against Aus.
If he does I delighted for him as he's a good player and well in Munster he worked his ass off and now been 3rd choice for Munster at the start of the year to a starter against Aus will show just how much he has progressed and the hard work pays off.

 

[lynam1104]

what happen to Sean Cronin?

 

[munstermuffin]

Well reports are Cronin will pay for poor lineout throwing but well as I said these are only reports that Gert Smal was dropping hints.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yeah, I love losing

No not that we loosing but fact is the team needed some tweaks and these results are forcing it which is good I'd rather be hammered on this tour than be close with players that are on last legs and well be in false sense of security and then come the World Cup we have a repeat of 07.

 

[lynam1104]

so what are are chancse for AUS anyway?

 

[munstermuffin]

Well I think Ireland mite have chance if the Aus frontrow is as bad as ours come scrum time but our backrow will have a massive challenge to as Elsom is a super player and Pollock will be a star

 

[lynam1104]

well right now AUS front row is as bad as it can be. Withc means that if we play Buclley we might be better than AUS (a frist) in the scrum. also who would be the back row ive lost track of injurys Sexton has to start i hope Paddy wallace is at .12 as for that back 3 i have no idea as i missed the mario game how were they?

 

[munstermuffin]

Looks like chris henry at 6 Jennings at 7 and Wally at 8 but Niall Ronan may get a spot too although unlikely.
Sexton should start but can't see Wallace at 12 although I'd have him in. A back 3 of Murphy Trimble and Bowe is what I'd pick and well hope Buckley gets a start as he is gaining most out of these games