Pro12: Round 20

[dullonien]

How can that not be deemed a red card offence?

Kearney wasn't 'pulling the ball back towards him' as you continuously say munstermuffin (look at the video, he places the ball and then get's booted in the head). They have set a president here which could enable any player to come into an ruck or tackle area and swing for the ball regardless if someone's in front of it or not.

There was a risk of serious injury here, and it could easily have been avoided. This isn't the same as a player going to kick a loose ball and an opposition player falling on it at the same time. Kearney's head was always in the way of that ball, so I fail to understand where the 'mistake' was made. It was a rush of blood which caused POC to do something he usually wouldn't, still doesn't make him innocent.

What a farce....

Edit. Pretty sure 90% of high tackles and tip tackles are 'genuine attempts' to make a tackle as well. Still doesn't mean that those who commit them escape sanction.

 

[munstermuffin]

Well argue or think what ye want ERC studied the video in slow motion. Found POC's foot connected with the ball BEFORE shin connected with Dave Kearney. The action was careless but not intentional or malicious. And it was not a red card offence.
So ill ask people IF it not a red card why should he be banned and cited?
Why has no one mentioned about Healy stamp especially?
Why has no one taken in to account Dave Kearney pulling back the ball and taking that risk?

People go on calling POC a thug especially Leinster fans last 48hours yet they have very short memories. BODs stamp against Italy was just a mistake yet POC a thug and all that for accidental clash. It just sickens me way some go on and I not on about posters here but it easy judging in slow motion yet that doesn't tell story and I glad right outcome has occurred and well nice to see Munster are improving and it easy to see when you see some of haters back on their back

 

[munstermuffin]

How can that not be deemed a red card offence?

Kearney wasn't 'pulling the ball back towards him' as you continuously say munstermuffin (look at the video, he places the ball and then get's booted in the head). They have set a president here which could enable any player to come into an ruck or tackle area and swing for the ball regardless if someone's in front of it or not.

There was a risk of serious injury here, and it could easily have been avoided. This isn't the same as a player going to kick a loose ball and an opposition player falling on it at the same time. Kearney's head was always in the way of that ball, so I fail to understand where the 'mistake' was made. It was a rush of blood which caused POC to do something he usually wouldn't, still doesn't make him innocent.

What a farce....

Sorry Dave Kearney said he was pulling ball in but I will make sure to tell him you said he was lying and I like way you were watching game when incident was neither a ruck or maul

 

[dullonien]

Sorry Dave Kearney said he was pulling ball in but I will make sure to tell him you said he was lying and I like way you were watching game when incident was neither a ruck or maul

Watch the video. There was no pulling back movement at all. Doubt Kearney quite knows precisely what happened in the seconds leading up to the incident, that's what concussion does.

I view this incident in a similar way to a diving double footed challenge in football. Even if a tackler connects with the ball first in that scenario, he is still deemed to have been reckless and dangerous, opening up the possibility of seriously injuring the opposition player. The game of rugby is a very dangerous game when people start doing reckless things. If there's a chance of connecting with another players head whilst going to kick the ball, the player shouldn't bloody kick the ball. It's not difficult. In some instances it's unavoidable (i.e. a player falling on a loose ball whilst an opposition player is already swinging his leg), but this wasn't one of those. Kearney's head was always in the way, and if a player couldn't see that kicking the ball in that situation wasn't going to cause harm then I don't know what to say.

 

[psychic duck]

Citing commissioner is an utter disgrace.

From RaboPro12: "The incident was viewed by citing commissioner Eddie Walsh to be careless and nothing more. It was decided that he was making a genuine attempt to kick the ball, and there was no deliberate intent."

Fair enough ... but then why doesn't that is complete double standards to other incidents that have bans.

This was given a 4 week ban. Yet why didn't what's the difference? Why couldn't this be ruled as "careless and nothing more, it was decided that he was making a genuine attempt to tackle the player, and there was no deliberate intent".

Or why when this was given a 4 week ban? There was no deliberate intent here and he was making a genuine attempt to make a tackle. Same with Warburton tackle on Clerc, that was just "careless and nothing more" with "no deliberate intent". So why should a kick to the head be different?

I would have no problem with them not banning POC as he didn't have deliberate intent, but then they have to be consistent as well. But it seems there is one rule for kicking a player in the head and another for tackling.

Pretty sure 90% of high tackles and tip tackles are 'genuine attempts' to make a tackle as well. Still doesn't mean that those who commit them escape sanction.

Precisely.

Well argue or think what ye want ERC studied the video in slow motion. Found POC's foot connected with the ball BEFORE shin connected with Dave Kearney. The action was careless but not intentional or malicious. And it was not a red card offence.

No his foot 100% hit Kearney's head first. See the gif, that is Kearney' head before the ball.

 

[munstermuffin]

May I also add Leinster Fans are the 1s that even tried make an issue.
No player on either side blinked and these accidents will happen again
POC a thug yet Healys stamp (vs Eng) and BOD (vs Ita) aren't thuggish. Yes I know they were cited but that not grounds for deciding a thug or not. And not saying 2 are thugs.
Leinster fans think there a conspiracy between IRFU and Munster. Yea and ET lives here too as we are a corrupt bunch.
People here are correct that an experienced REF, a linesman with Leinster links, an independent citing commissioner all seen incidend and were all wrong and ye were correct. Owens is in on this too BTW
And now we are asking Rabo to make 5th team in playoffs as we want in and this should be finalised next week if that ok with y'all

 

[munstermuffin]

@Duck people are just stupid if comparing spear tackles with POC issue as if you agree with it or not they constantly say they watching that area closely and Dullonien watch full clip ball is out alot more and comes in I've seen it enough I can accept it was never out enough or with clear daylight but I still think some reactions are OTT

 

[dullonien]

No-ones said anything about POC being a thug. Everyone has said it was a mistake. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be cited and banned. Healy deserved his ban and more. BOD's wasn't bad, just a tiny stab which wouldn't have hurt anyone. He was still cited.

Edit. Full clip, as posted by BG8. If you see a pulling back movement there then you're nit-picking.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/k-GhyiAR8SI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

 

[munstermuffin]

Also just to say Dave Kearney was half out of it before POC incident and that played part too and POC couldn't have known Kearney was out

 

[dullonien]

Also just to say Dave Kearney was half out of it before POC incident and that played part too and POC couldn't have known Kearney was out

Makes no difference whatsoever. Clutching at straws.

 

[Peat]

I'll answer - if the ERC did and said that, they are talking out of their hoop, and this is one of the many types of incident which leads rugby fans to stare gape mouthed at the incompetence and inconsistency of the citing process. There have been many suspensions for accidental offences. The player must accept responsibility for where they place the body or the game descends into farce. What O'Connell did was incredibly dangerous and it is pure luck that Kearney is not more seriously hurt.

That should have been a ban.

 

[munstermuffin]

Well he's off so people in a lot more important places agree and came to same conclusion so I will happily clutch to straws. And obviously you missing whole debate in Irwlabd of POC been thug and as rugby dump decribed him "a nasty piece of work".
But as I said I only going on exact finding of citing guys too

 

[munstermuffin]

I'll answer - if the ERC did and said that, they are talking out of their hoop, and this is one of the many types of incident which leads rugby fans to stare gape mouthed at the incompetence and inconsistency of the citing process. There have been many suspensions for accidental offences. The player must accept responsibility for where they place the body or the game descends into farce. What O'Connell did was incredibly dangerous and it is pure luck that Kearney is not more seriously hurt.

That should have been a ban.

Well sir that they did so you should maybe write them a letter stating your stance. And best of luck with it. Sure advise so on avoiding citing inconsistencies is don't get cited

 

[dullonien]

Well he's off so people in a lot more important places agree and came to same conclusion so I will happily clutch to straws. And obviously you missing whole debate in Irwlabd of POC been thug and as rugby dump decribed him "a nasty piece of work".
But as I said I only going on exact finding of citing guys too

Yeah, but it's already painfully obvious that the 'people in a lot more important places' are idiots. The citing process is a complete farce and it's not just this incident that shows that. So don't use that as an excuse, because it won't hold up well around here.

Maybe others all calling him a 'thug', but doesn't mean you needed to bring that into here where people are generally more sensible. That just shows that some people = idiots who like nothing better than getting all enraged and going over the top with their criticisms.

 

[munstermuffin]

Well call it what you like but I think it was reckless yea but not a red card offence. You don't get cited for been reckless and you don't get a ban for been reckless. You get a ban and cited for committing a red card offence. And I think maybe a yellow is max this was and the "idiots" agree so look Owens, Touch Judge, Citing Commisioner and ERC all agreed and they ALL seen incident and not 1 person has found a case to answer. Do should Owens be struck off by the way for this huge error? And you can hardly say he was getting along with POC Saturday night

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I hope in the next Munster match people just try and kick their way through rucks.
I mean, the balls on the other side of the ruck, they're just trying to kick the ball if someone gets in the way that's their own fault!

 

[munstermuffin]

Well Olyy we didn't complain but people missed game as incident wasn't a ruck or maul just Kearney dropped from sky. But Munster just play what's in front and if Clermont play that way it might suit us Sure we only going for day out and to make up numbers

 

[dullonien]

Well call it what you like but I think it was reckless yea but not a red card offence. You don't get cited for been reckless and you don't get a ban for been reckless. You get a ban and cited for committing a red card offence. And I think maybe a yellow is max this was and the "idiots" agree so look Owens, Touch Judge, Citing Commisioner and ERC all agreed and they ALL seen incident and not 1 person has found a case to answer. Do should Owens be struck off by the way for this huge error? And you can hardly say he was getting along with POC Saturday night

Not sure what Owens has got to do with it. In real time these things can be missed, or at least it's difficult to see fully what happened. That's the whole point of the citing commissioner. Owens can't look at an incident afterwards and award a card, or even comment tbh, as that's the citing commissioner's job.

Plenty of reckless things get red cards. Or do you think that every red card offence is pre-meditated and intentional? I'd say most tip-tackles are unintentional but reckless, as is taking someone out in the air. Do you really think BOD's little stamp against Italy was a red-card offence? He only got yellow, so that suggests not, still didn't stop him being cited.

 

[munstermuffin]

Well I commenting on POCs issue and don't think it was a red card no. Owens saw it and gave Leinster lineout so nothing was missed, he conferred with touch judge and POC to state just a lineout. And no not all red cards are per-meditated and not all recklessness is a citing and you can go until the cows come home about POC deserving ban but sure if it make ye happy he might sit out next Rabo game and just play in HEC semi

 

[TrueSlawter]

Well argue or think what ye want ERC studied the video in slow motion. Found POC's foot connected with the ball BEFORE shin connected with Dave Kearney. The action was careless but not intentional or malicious. And it was not a red card offence.
So ill ask people IF it not a red card why should he be banned and cited?
Why has no one mentioned about Healy stamp especially?
Why has no one taken in to account Dave Kearney pulling back the ball and taking that risk?

People go on calling POC a thug especially Leinster fans last 48hours yet they have very short memories. BODs stamp against Italy was just a mistake yet POC a thug and all that for accidental clash. It just sickens me way some go on and I not on about posters here but it easy judging in slow motion yet that doesn't tell story and I glad right outcome has occurred and well nice to see Munster are improving and it easy to see when you see some of haters back on their back

He kicked a guy in the head, accidental or not its reckless. If it was on the street it'd be a GBH / Assault and Battery charge. I don't get how you can see it as nothing other than at least a Yellow, I think it should be a red and a 2 week ban minimum.

Intent shouldn't matter in a situation like that, there always was a risk of making contact of the players head therefore it shouldn't have been attempted..