South African Government wants to enforce Quota system - AGAIN!!!

[Big Ewis]

Well yes. That's the core of the problem. They say the national team must represent the demographic of the republic. So because 80% of the country's people are non-white, there must be 80% non-white players in every national team.

sorry to hear that for Afrikaans. Just another of countless injustices of the modern world. Godspeed Afrikaans...

 

[TRF_heineken]

Latest news reports are that this proposal has been put on ice until 2015.

Which I think is very good news. Now we can have the Elections, and see if the ANC will still get the many votes they think they will get, OR, the other parties will catch up on them, and cause the effect that the ANC won't have a majority in parliament, which will then make a massive change in thinking and implementation.

@ Conrad Smith, you throw the word Racism. us whites here in SA calls it Reverse-racism, as in the past, not only in SA, but all over the world, generally racism was aimed at black people. And with this new era of Jacob Zuma and his corrupt officials, there has been a tone of Reverse-Apartheid. the ANC now doing to the whites what the whites did to the blacks during Apartheid.

 

[SimonG]

I would use the term positive discrimination. Totally understand any residual anger post apartheid and the ANC clamour for more equality for blacks, but the quota method is a nonsense.

First of (as I understand it), in South Africa, football is still predominantly blacks, the working class. Rugby/cricket is still predominantly whites, the (previously ruling) middle/upper class. I can't see how it would have changed that much in only a few years, so naturally there will not be proportional representation of SA's racial demographic in each sport.

 

[Da Grappla]

Calling it "reverse-racism" is just neolingua a la George Orwell's 1984. Every stance of one racial group goes over another, is plain racism.

Glad to read it's on hold.

 

[SimonG]

Too simplistic (and inaccurate) to label it racism.

If you have suffered heinous treatment at the hands of the white ruling class for nigh on a century, it's wholly understandable that the disadvantaged previously oppressed will get opportunities by receiving a helping hand (positive discrimination) from the government. I agree with this policy when it comes to education, jobs, land etc. but not a quota in sport.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I would use the term positive discrimination. Totally understand any residual anger post apartheid and the ANC clamour for more equality for blacks, but the quota method is a nonsense.

First of (as I understand it), in South Africa, football is still predominantly blacks, the working class. Rugby/cricket is still predominantly whites, the (previously ruling) middle/upper class. I can't see how it would have changed that much in only a few years, so naturally there will not be proportional representation of SA's racial demographic in each sport.

This cannot be positive discrimination if there is nothing positive about it.

there is a difference between discrimination and differentiation. And our Constitution even makes provision for valid differentiation to a certain extent in our Bill of Rights.

it's now exactly 20 years since our first Democratic elections after apartheid. and IMHO the proof of the pudding will only now start to show if the processes were taken late 90's, early 20's. it's just the ANC that is pushing this matter, and everyone else is saying but you are prematurely about this.

 

[Da Grappla]

Positive discrimination is just discrimination. We ran a long way in the western world with quotas for blacks, women..equating them to disabled people. The only discrimnation that could be positive, is just that; pro disabled people. At this very moment, being black or a woman, doesn't qualify as that.

Too simplistic (and inaccurate) to label it racism.

If you have suffered heinous treatment at the hands of the white ruling class for nigh on a century, it's wholly understandable that the disadvantaged previously oppressed will get opportunities by receiving a helping hand (positive discrimination) from the government. I agree with this policy when it comes to education, jobs, land etc. but not a quota in sport.

Aha...it's compulsory to get blacks in rugby but not white in football as it was pointed before. That's racism.

Regarding the past, sorry, I'm jewish. We don't have original sins, let alone inherited sins.

 

[SimonG]

Positive discrimination favours, and provides special opportunities for, a disadvantaged group. A quota is one of the most common examples of positive discrimination.

I don't agree with it in sport, especially in this case as I've mentioned.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well, we have hosted the last FIFA World Cup. So it's pretty big. And easily the most players in comparison to rugby and cricket.

Be it as it may, FIFA won't interfere, as Soccer isn't one of the sports affected by the quota system.

That is the most ridiculous thing about it. This quota-system is Apartheid all over again unfortunately. It only applies to sports where blacks need help to get into the teams.

Pathetic.

 

[nickdnz]

The fact of the matter is, if South African politicians truly wanted more black people playing for the Springboks because it was good for the country - then they would invest and sponsor black rugby more at grass roots level, supporting the rugby infrastructure in predominantly black communities. Initiatives to get more black rugby athletes at the top level has already paid huge dividens. It's these long term plans which really make a difference and could potentially make 60% of South Africa's best players genuinely be black athletes. Quotas really just make crude political statements and don't truly benefit anyone.

 

[Da Grappla]

No, it's absurd. When you put in motion a quota system, you're just watering down the field you applied it on. You are against it in sport because it's so easy to see in a very competitive environment how fallacious is this issue.

Many conscious blacks in America have spoken against it.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

SimonG, we have lived with positive discrimination now for 20 years. I was for it at the start but the results I have seen on the balance because of it is mostly negative and it is not sustainable. The biggest problem in that regard is that standards in education have tumbled so low that our youth are totally unemployable as is; that is not to the benefit of the previously disadvantaged and the majority would have been better served by the retention of experienced (and actual qualified) administrators etc and for a natural if slow and painful balance to be reached over time. I do realize though that it is easy for me to say but truly, the majority are not better off on many fronts and a focus on slow steady creation of opportunities would've seen better results over 20 years IMO than knee-jerk discrimination based policies have up until now.

 

[SimonG]

Oh I agree it's not sustainable, what I'm saying it's understandable that positive discrimination is so prevalent as apartheid is still pretty recent. An oppressed people who are now in power will always seek to redress the balance (however wrong or detrimental the consequences). The transition was never going to be easy.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator may make a society more "equal" but it doesn't improve it for anyone.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator may make a society more "equal" but it doesn't improve it for anyone.

yeah, and in competitive sports, the idea is to be the best, not the equalist.

The whole representation thing is a bit of farce really. As IMHO the sports shows exactly the representation of the population playing the sport and the percentage of demographic who likes the sport and watches it.

 

[Da Grappla]

Oh I agree it's not sustainable, what I'm saying it's understandable that positive discrimination is so prevalent as apartheid is still pretty recent. An oppressed people who are now in power will always seek to redress the balance (however wrong or detrimental the consequences). The transition was never going to be easy.

There are better ways...get people (even in their 40s) to school, teach them, show them the ways, etc. You weren't given the chance to be educated? Ok, now you can.

Once all are at the starting line...ready, steady, go.

 

[Jaguares]

yeah, and in competitive sports, the idea is to be the best, not the equalist.

The whole representation thing is a bit of farce really. As IMHO the sports shows exactly the representation of the population playing the sport and the percentage of demographic who likes the sport and watches it.

How popular is rugby among black population now? Is it more popular than before?

 

[TRF_heineken]

How popular is rugby among black population now? Is it more popular than before?

Well it has slowly grown in viewership. I think the Bulls have been the frontrunners in gaining more black viewers, ever since they hosted the Super Rugby final in the township between them and the Stormers in 2010.

The Kings also have a big following, as it is in the centre of the Eastern Cape's rugby community which has also been a predominantly black following. This is why SA is strongly gunning for a 6th team to the Super Rugby tournament as it would greatly increase the amount of viewers, which will lead to more exposure.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Just an update:

Yesterday the Sports Minister, Mr. Fikile Mbalula, had a meeting with 3 minority group factions to discuss the whole Quota system and why it should not be implemented. One of these factions was Afriforum.

The decision was taken that the quota system will not be enforced onto anyone. There was also a petition given to Mr. Mbalula along with a promise to fight this matter in the courts if it is ever to be enforced.

Great news for sport lovers!!

 

[User1245]

I'd also add one of the factors that black Africans don't identify with or participate in rugby is that they are on average of smaller stature than whites, and especially Afrikaners.
Even the whites with a historically English heritage don't match up with Afrikaners.
Honestly it's the bloody truth, I bet if you search the entire country and got the biggest and toughest blacks together, rugby playing or not, they will barely much up physically with a regional Free State team.