[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 3: England vs Italy (26/02/2017)

[Rararaz]

Yeah but no reason he shouldn't lift and a prop throw

Isn't it to do with height? I think your Hooker is usually the shortest bloke in forward pack so he's pretty useless as a receiver.

Good point. I guess that would certainly be the historical reason behind it.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Also, what is his range like? Laidlaw's a great kicker, but his kicking percentage is high in part because he doesn't take kicks beyond 40m. I suspect, being a 9, Spencer wouldn't have as big a range as Farrell.

Farrell does the same thing - he doesn't make speculative kicks... in the early days of his England career, his range was really quite short... outside of about 35m he seemed to be a 50/50 kicker.
I'd suggest it's still the case (albeit with a better range), and one of the reasons his percentage is so solid, he knows what he can get... and he'll pass if he can't kick it. Whereas a lot of players will give it a go, rightly or wrongly.

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Remember Charlie Hodgson being an average goal kicker but superb attacking fly half. He lost out on England caps simply because he couldn't knock them over as often as St Johnny could. Missed out on some good rugby between 2003 and 2007 because of it.

He missed out because he was a massive pussy in defence.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeh Hidgson defence cost him just as much as his goal kicking.

In the end was never a International player and great club 10 though.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Good point. I guess that would certainly be the historical reason behind it.

I suspect a big reason is also that lineout throwing isn't really "fun", so unless it's a player's responsibility, there aren't many 12 year olds who are going to practice it.
The way to make kids practice it is to make it their responsibility. Hooker was the most appropriate position to assign it to.

Unlike goal kicking, which is a bit of a glory role, and kids seem to enjoy doing it... so you get players from lots of positions being able to do it.

 

[McTallshort]

Farrell does the same thing - he doesn't make speculative kicks... in the early days of his England career, his range was really quite short... outside of about 35m he seemed to be a 50/50 kicker.
I'd suggest it's still the case (albeit with a better range), and one of the reasons his percentage is so solid, he knows what he can get... and he'll pass if he can't kick it. Whereas a lot of players will give it a go, rightly or wrongly.

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He missed out because he was a massive pussy in defence.

Unlike Ford who's a defensive rock

 

[Every Time Ref]

I suspect a big reason is also that lineout throwing isn't really "fun", so unless it's a player's responsibility, there aren't many 12 year olds who are going to practice it.
The way to make kids practice it is to make it their responsibility. Hooker was the most appropriate position to assign it to.

Unlike goal kicking, which is a bit of a glory role, and kids seem to enjoy doing it... so you get players from lots of positions being able to do it.

Interesting, but would that apply to 16-year-old academy kids, who had the drive to eventually become professionals and internationals? I'm not disagreeing with your logic, but the extent of it seems extreme - I'm just surprised that there are (to my knowledge) zero exceptions to the convention that the hooker throws in (I'm sure there are examples which will be pointed out to me now but it's still extremely rare, certainly compared to goalkicking).

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Unlike Ford who's a defensive rock

He loses ground but he doesn't fall off tackles like Hodgson. He fronts up and usually (eventually) gets the man down

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Unlike Ford who's a defensive rock

But he doesn't shy away TBF.

Even when Hughes embrassing him a couple of seasons ago he fronted up to each tackle at least.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Exactly, he's small, but he puts himself in the way.

 

[mustardcharlie]

In modern rugby it is essential that fly haves can tackle. Rob Andrew was a big fail in that respect. Wilkinson took out charging back row forwards like they weren't there. That channel must be secure or you leak tries.

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Any predictions for the score today? 27-10 for England, I reckon.

 

[Rararaz]

I suspect a big reason is also that lineout throwing isn't really "fun", so unless it's a player's responsibility, there aren't many 12 year olds who are going to practice it.
The way to make kids practice it is to make it their responsibility. Hooker was the most appropriate position to assign it to.

Unlike goal kicking, which is a bit of a glory role, and kids seem to enjoy doing it... so you get players from lots of positions being able to do it.

Good point about the fun and responsibility aspect but the height thing does make a lot of sense as the hooker was traditionally both small and light. Nowadays the hooker tends to be much the same as any other front row player so it does seem arbitrary that it is still always the hooker that throws.

While I agree that the goal kicking is seen as a glory role, your naturally better kickers are likely to drift closer to the 10 position where they can control the game with the good open play kicking which those players often have as well. I also wonder if there is a temperement aspect as well? Kicking under pressure maybe requires the same mental fortitude required to run the back line?

only musings but I'm not sure that the 10 generally being the goal kicker is particularly arbitrary.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hughes 2 for 2 on minutes/knockons
Then gives away a penalty in the 3rd minute

 

[Peat]

Huzzah, there's a game.

Unhuzzah, why do you think that regaining the ball five yards behind a knock on is worth playing an advantage Poite? We should have deliberately knocked it on in return to be fair.

Poor start from Hughes albeit with one nice tackle on Parisse.

 

[ncurd]

Hughes 2 for 2 on minutes/knockons
Then gives away a penalty in the 3rd minute

Has to be a record to enter my **** list for a game by a player. He's going to have to perform pretty solidly now to make up for that start.

Luckily that kick missed.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Hughes is crap.
He just isn't international level.

 

[ncurd]

Poite really not interested in scrum advantage. I'm happy with that stops needless scrums.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What an absolute mess of a lineout

 

[Jockstap]

Take the points you morons.

 

[ncurd]

Cmon lads I know it's Italy but we need to win this convincingly.

 

[Peat]

Taking the lineout there - possibly sensible, but smells of fear.

 

[Groundhog]

Take the points you morons.

An Italian 10 doesn't take anything. They pray to Jupiter and hope the thing goes over.

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Italians utilising the old Chiefs, 'it's not a ruck' technique. You have to be so careful.