England to be without finalists for the All Blacks

The Jones Boy · Nov 26, 2013

Some tender chaps missed the smiley emoticon on top of the post, hahahah

Gotcha.:lol:

Big Ewis · Nov 26, 2013

Haven't read the whole thing here, but there is a difference between stating a fact of hindrance, and then an excuse.
e.g.:
Excuse: I only scare girls away because of my farting.

Fact: France only lost to South Africa because they didn't have Picamoles and likely would have dropped 30-45 with him in the lineup.

nickdnz · Nov 27, 2013

The Jones Boy said:
Excuses excuses, I don't know... The AB's come up to Twickenham every year and yet it's been ELEVEN years since the Poms went down to Middle earth and they're making excuses already?
Aye carumba...

Despite that beind a wind up, its also it's technically untrue.

England sent a team (not the best one they could field mind) to play against the New Zealand Maori in 2010.

j'nuh · Nov 27, 2013

The Jones Boy said:
Excuses excuses, I don't know... The AB's come up to Twickenham every year and yet it's been ELEVEN years since the Poms went down to Middle earth and they're making excuses already?
Aye carumba...

Doesn't NZ come up with a new illness to blame a defeat on every time they lose?

btw, the only part that made me mad was you calling NZ middle-earth. The Shire is clearly based on England. Sod the films.

Packman · Nov 27, 2013

Back to the bad old years of 2005 - 2007 then. The RFU are really showing themselves up this season. What a waste of space they are.

Us fans are losing out again. But if you are stupid enough to buy **** then you'll congratulations, you've got a lump of ****, I hope you are a farmer otherwise you're just very smelly and rather foolish...

England Fans and NZ fans, don't go to the first test, let them play to an empty stadium, I won't say to the England Fans that they shouldn't travel down to NZ until the 2nd week because believe me, you'll still find a thousand fantastic things to do just by traveling around the two islands. Just don't invite the RFU to do this again by giving them money for a non-event. I mean who the hell would bet against NZ in this situation? It's a waste of money. In 2008 they said these second string thrashings were at an end. I'm so annoyed that they've gone back on their word that I won't even watch the game. I'm starting to think that the RFU "reshuffle" that occurred a couple of years ago was really a coo to get rid of anyone who wouldn't acquiesce to PRL. Now all we've got is a bunch of club yes men who have screwed up Europe and now the summer tours.

LETS GIVE THE ALL BLACKS A ONE MATCH HEAD START BECAUSE THAT'LL WORK! FFS. we are hosting the rugby world cup in less than 18 months time and one of our precious finite test matches has been written off! It's outrageous ineptitude.

Have we got a minister of sport??? Because he really needs to stop filling out claims sheets and get off his ass and sort English rugby out. Its in a despicable state right now. In fact I'm going to find out how to contact the Minister of Sport and post his email address on this site. Look for it in the General Rugby Folder. It'll be up before the end of week.

The Jones Boy · Nov 27, 2013

TRF_nickdnz said:
Despite that beind a wind up, its also it's technically untrue.

England sent a team (not the best one they could field mind) to play against the New Zealand Maori in 2010.

It's technically 100% straight fact, England has not sent a team to play the All Blacks since 2003, thats eleven years, I can understand you may have run out of fingers...

Jeez Wayne, some people are so thick....

nickdnz · Nov 27, 2013

The Jones Boy said:
It's technically 100% straight fact, England has not sent a team to play the All Blacks since 2003, thats eleven years, I can understand you may have run out of fingers...

Jeez Wayne, some people are so thick....

The Jones Boy said:
Excuses excuses, I don't know... The AB's come up to Twickenham every year and yet it's been ELEVEN years since the Poms went down to Middle earth and they're making excuses already?
Aye carumba...

Assuming you mean Middle Earth as New Zealand, then the 'Poms' have played in New Zealand within the last three and a half years. You didn't specify that it has been eleven years since they played the All Blacks in New Zealand in your original post, only that the All Blacks play England every year (which is also technically incorrect as we haven't played England in England during 2011, 2007 or 2003 due to Rugby World Cups).

See if you can work that one out without throwing insults.

g6mcg · Nov 27, 2013

Topsy Ojo's renewed his contract at London Irish, and I'm pretty sure he won his two caps in New Zealand in 2008.

Patchey · Nov 27, 2013

g6mcg said:
Topsy Ojo's renewed his contract at London Irish, and I'm pretty sure he won his two caps in New Zealand in 2008.

Yup. Scored a pretty great try too if I remember rightly.

Another winger England wasted...

nickdnz · Nov 28, 2013

g6mcg said:
Topsy Ojo's renewed his contract at London Irish, and I'm pretty sure he won his two caps in New Zealand in 2008.

Yep, that's correct. I remember thinking he was going to be England's next big thing (I remember one try him burning Muliaina). There was also some controversy on the tour which seemed to result in Ojo not being included for any tests, while others also guilty have.

The Jones Boy said:
It's technically 100% straight fact, England has not sent a team to play the All Blacks since 2003, thats eleven years, I can understand you may have run out of fingers...

Jeez Wayne, some people are so thick....

TRF Mr Fish · Nov 28, 2013

The Jones Boy said:
Excuses excuses, I don't know... The AB's come up to Twickenham every year and yet it's been ELEVEN years since the Poms went down to Middle earth and they're making excuses already?
Aye carumba...

England toured NZ in 2008.

smartcooky · Nov 28, 2013

Mr Fish said:
England toured NZ in 2008.

And 2004

Last edited: Nov 28, 2013

N

nickdnz

International

TRF Legend

Nov 28, 2013

#33

You guys have all run out of fingers, it's been ELEVEN YEARS.

Jeez Wayne, thick people..

T

The Jones Boy

First XV

Nov 28, 2013

#34

Haa haa haa They got a hiding.
Awesome Smart cookie.
I have been living in London since 1999 and i asked the pommy blokes from our local rugby club and they all confirmed England had not toured NZ since 2003.
Maybe thats because they only remember the victories, and i only remember the defeats... hmmm...
Shows what we old farts know...

Last edited: Nov 28, 2013

I

ianw16

Academy Player

Dec 2, 2013

#35

living sacrifice said:
In your terms it would be like playing New Zealand the same day the two best South African teams are playing in the super 15 final. So playing the all blacks without any bulls or sharks or cheetahs players depending who the best two teams are right now.

New Zealand and Australia could also choose their players who move over seas it's just their policy that stops them not the clubs, so it's decision.

Not comparable. SA (with NZ and Aus) have all their top players condensed into just 5 teams. Losing 40% of them would be a far bigger blow. England, for some reason, have 12 teams. Should still be able to put a team together out of the other 10, if they're any good.
Mind you, the situation wouldn't arise, as the game in the SH is, rightly, run by the Unions. If that sort of situation did occur, then the club/province/franchise would be told "tough luck, the national team takes priority". Tail wagging the dog, this side of the equator.

As for picking overseas based players; very unlikely in NZ's case. How can you control when they play, how often, in which style? I'm not saying the AB selectors tell the Super XV coaches how and who to play, but it's pretty much an unwritten rule that they do the best they can to adopt a style that isn't at odds with the national team. And given the AB's are paid by the NZRFU, this means if a player needs a rest, or sabbatical, then they get it, no arguments.

This tour to NZ has been known about for some time; where was the liaison between union and clubs to maybe chuck in a couple of midweek games, and therefore finish the season a week or so earlier? All very amateurish imo.

Aspry

Academy Player

Dec 2, 2013

#36

Welcome to the club.

Since we're participing in TRC we play the june internationals with a second class team, and we're gonna keep giving away those matches (losing by big margins) until we get a Super Rugby franchise, wich isn't something official yet...

iINDOMINUSxx

First XV

TRF Legend

Dec 2, 2013

#37

Aspry said:
Welcome to the club.

Since we're participing in TRC we play the june internationals with a second class team, and we're gonna keep giving away those matches (losing by big margins) until we get a Super Rugby franchise, wich isn't something official yet...

good luck with that then

T

The Jones Boy

First XV

Dec 3, 2013

#38

Aspry said:
Welcome to the club.

Since we're participing in TRC we play the june internationals with a second class team, and we're gonna keep giving away those matches (losing by big margins) until we get a Super Rugby franchise, wich isn't something official yet...

That would be brilliant, Argentina with a Super rugby franchise. Fantastic idea. That would be arguably the best team in the competition within a few years because it would comprise the national team pretty quickly.
They could either ditch the Farce or the Rebels - or up the numbers to 16.

I

ianw16

Academy Player

Dec 3, 2013

#39

The Jones Boy said:
That would be brilliant, Argentina with a Super rugby franchise. Fantastic idea. That would be arguably the best team in the competition within a few years because it would comprise the national team pretty quickly.
They could either ditch the Farce or the Rebels - or up the numbers to 16.

An article from http://www.superxv.com/40474/1/sanzar-keen-to-get-argentina-in-super-rugby

Super Rugby organisers SANZAR have confirmed that they are considering proposals to include an Argentinean team in an expanded tournament.

The current broadcast deal expires at the end of the 2015 season and a new deal will be in place for the 2016.

The tournament's expansion is being driven by South Africa's insistence on having six teams in Super Rugby instead of the current five teams from each nation as it is now.

The situation has been created by political pressure within South Africa which has led to the creation of the Southern Kings.

As South Africa only have five spaces currently the Southern Kings replaced the Lions for the 2013 Super Rugby season and the Kings will sit out 2014.

The Kings are expected to play a series of promotion relegation matches with the lowest placed South African team at the end of next season to determine who will play in the 2015 tournament.

Earlier this week the NZHerald reported that New Zealand coaches were backing the idea of a Pacific Islands team based in Auckland and a Japanese team based in Australia could take the number of teams to 18 in 2016.

Instead of the current three conference model a two conference model is on the table and is SANZAR's preferred plan.

SANZAR CEO Greg Peters says that while the two-conference model was their preference, the other guiding principle was the inclusion of a franchise based in Argentina.

Logistically speaking adding another Super Rugby team in an area nowhere near the other participants is easier said than done.

"There have been two cornerstones that we have been guided by, one is that South Africa will have six teams and the second is that we'll use our best endeavours to include Argentina if that's at all possible," he told the NZHerald.

Peters said that he had not yet seen the proposal that included Pacific Islands and Japanese teams.

"The models we're working on endeavour to include Argentina because they play in one of our competitions now and it's logical to include them in the other one to create a professional rugby base for the future development of professional players out of Argentina," Peters said.

"They would come through to the Pumas and the Rugby Championship. That is not without its logistical and geographical problems, but we are endeavouring to include them if at all possible."

One of the major concerns for SANZAR is increasing the amount of travel that players have to do in the Super Rugby season and including a team based in Argentina would significantly increase the travel.

"The problem for us is one of our primary considerations is player welfare, we're not extending the number of weeks (of the competition), there's no doubt about that," Peters said.

"We are also concerned about the integrity of the competition and how that might be viewed by fans," added Peters.

"In an ideal world, and unfortunately we aren't operating in an ideal world, every team would play everyone else.

"Under the constraints of the weeks available, the desire to retain the derby matches, player welfare and ideally reducing the travel component, that's not possible."

"It's not possible under 15 teams (currently) so it's therefore not possible with more teams."

So, still far from finalised. Won't happen until end of current TV deal anyway (2015). Saffers holding out for 6 teams would seem to be the catalyst. Given how crap the Highlanders have been, maybe they should combine with the Crusaders for a single South Island franchise, freeing up a spot?

Cue civil war beyond the Cook Strait!

Maverick1987

First XV

Jan 4, 2014

#40

Just been looking at the fixtures for the AP it's crazy that the last games are 10th May and players still not able to play for England on the 7th June if they had both semis on the 17th May and then the final on 24th May anyone in the final could have a weeks rest and miss the baa baas game on the 1st June then be ready for the ABs on 7th June ........

Simples !!!