June International Test: South Africa vs. Ireland [2nd Test] (18/06/2016)

[TRF_stormer2010]

What I am hoping for for PE:

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Malcolm Marx - I don't think Strauss has been particularly poor but also he isn't adding anything. I don't feel we need to carry anyone for any reason. Whiteley maybe doesn't have teh caps but he has the form and leadership. Let Strauss prove himself in SR first.
3 Julian Redelinghuys - Malherbe is my long term TH but he is playing poorly ATM. Like with Strauss, prove yourself in SR first.
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Franco Mostert - added a lot off the bench. I have Du Toit as top but with the injuries and lack of form at loose forward I think it'd be better to have Du Toit in the 3rd row as a 3rd line-out option and adding grunt to the pack.
6 Jaco Kriel - Louw has been off the pace and Kriel deserves his shot. Look at Combrinck and Whiteley. We've all been calling for these guys to get time. No one deserves it more than Kriel IMO.
7 PS du Toit - read Mostert at 5
8 Warren Whiteley (c) - if fit and he is my long term captain.
9 Faf de Klerk
10 ? Who is left standing?
11 JPP
12 ? De Allende? - I don't think he has fully redeemed himself but it was an improvement. Question is was it enough of an improvement?
13 ? Mapoe - a player that hasn't repaid the faith shown him and hasn't shown hs form but I tend to blame the guys inside him and TBF Ireland's blitz defense and defense in midfield bar a few lapses has been excellent. Jesse Kriel hasn't shown much form so don't think he'd do much better.
14 Ruan Combrinck - MotM and justified everyoe calling for his inclusion.
15 Willie le Roux - not too sure here. I still think Le Roux is very limited and think Combrinck will be our fullback come 2019 but maybe keep Combrinck at 14 for a few games more. Jesse Kriel, Andries Coetzee and Warrick Gelant might step up to the platre here as well. If Gelant can secure the 15 jersey will him being non-white open up a spot for Combrinck or does it have to be 'African-black'?

I have no issue with half of the starting team being Lions players if those are the players in form and able to execute. I keep saying we need identity and need to focus. Are we wanting to play the ball or play the man? Both are legitimate strategies but the Bok 23 should look totally different depending on which route we want to go.

 

[TRF_heineken]

What I am hoping for for PE:

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Malcolm Marx - I don't think Strauss has been particularly poor but also he isn't adding anything. I don't feel we need to carry anyone for any reason. Whiteley maybe doesn't have teh caps but he has the form and leadership. Let Strauss prove himself in SR first.
3 Julian Redelinghuys - Malherbe is my long term TH but he is playing poorly ATM. Like with Strauss, prove yourself in SR first.
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Franco Mostert - added a lot off the bench. I have Du Toit as top but with the injuries and lack of form at loose forward I think it'd be better to have Du Toit in the 3rd row as a 3rd line-out option and adding grunt to the pack.
6 Jaco Kriel - Louw has been off the pace and Kriel deserves his shot. Look at Combrinck and Whiteley. We've all been calling for these guys to get time. No one deserves it more than Kriel IMO.
7 PS du Toit - read Mostert at 5
8 Warren Whiteley (c) - if fit and he is my long term captain.
9 Faf de Klerk
10 ? Who is left standing?
11 JPP
12 ? De Allende? - I don't think he has fully redeemed himself but it was an improvement. Question is was it enough of an improvement?
13 ? Mapoe - a player that hasn't repaid the faith shown him and hasn't shown hs form but I tend to blame the guys inside him and TBF Ireland's blitz defense and defense in midfield bar a few lapses has been excellent. Jesse Kriel hasn't shown much form so don't think he'd do much better.
14 Ruan Combrinck - MotM and justified everyoe calling for his inclusion.
15 Willie le Roux - not too sure here. I still think Le Roux is very limited and think Combrinck will be our fullback come 2019 but maybe keep Combrinck at 14 for a few games more. Jesse Kriel, Andries Coetzee and Warrick Gelant might step up to the platre here as well. If Gelant can secure the 15 jersey will him being non-white open up a spot for Combrinck or does it have to be 'African-black'?

I have no issue with half of the starting team being Lions players if those are the players in form and able to execute. I keep saying we need identity and need to focus. Are we wanting to play the ball or play the man? Both are legitimate strategies but the Bok 23 should look totally different depending on which route we want to go.

A bit of wishful thinking here and there. And some of those selections you know just won't happen. Here's my remarks:

1. Steven Kitshoff (why not test this guy now, he can't be worse than Beast or Nyakane)
2. Adriaan Strauss (Contrary to what you may think, he's one of the few runners we used this past weekend that actually got us over the advantage line).
3. Julian Redelinghuys
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Franco Mostert
6. Jaco Kriel
7. PSDT
8. Warren Whiteley (if fit, otherwise bring in Carr).
9. Faf de Klerk
10. Elton Jantjies (sure he had a bad game with the boot, but he got more confidence as the game progressed).
11. Ruan Combrink
12. De Allende (with Serfontein injured, there isn't many other capped centres left or in the 31-man squad. De Allende needs to get his tackling better now that he can attack again)
13. Jesse Kriel (Mapoe hasn't shown the same form as in the Super Rugby, and my worry is that he's one of the guys who just can't make the step up)
14. JPP (Who else????)
15. Willie Le Roux (also playing a bit better every week)

16. Malcolm Marx (Bongi hasn't played a single second the first 2 tests, so just as well bring in Marx).
17. Beast
18. Vincent Koch or Marcel v/d Merwe
19. Lood De Jager/RG Snyman
20. Arno Botha/Nizam Carr
21. Paige/Van Zyl/Groom
22. Morne Steyn
23. Mapoe

 

[munstermuffin]

He was brought in for tight-head scrummaging.

In that, it worked.

But as you say, in everything else, it didn't.


I'd also wonder if both our flankers paid more attention to scrummaging, then we wouldn't need to bring in the likes of Roux. Henderson locked into the scrum well on Sat and rarely slipped off the prop. Ruddock didn't and was repeatedly offering very little support beyond the first second or two.

I know the reason but would you pick a guy solely on that reason. It's not like his selection dominated scrums 1 way or the other. Every lock has power and needs to contribute more. Like Connacht have him as 4th or 5th choice for reason. I don't think Henderson gets recognition for his power in scrum. It's part of reason he looses some zing in open play is his legs work so hard at scrum time when he's a lock. I think Toner was under too much pressure with Roux there too for lineouts.

Regards flankers comment it's hard to say. Ruddock tried to think more like a 7 when he's a 6. This effects way you scrum as half his mind is concentrating on breaking off to make tackle. This can be tough if your not playing regularly at 7. Henderson is same with regards he's not settled at 6 and changing can mingle with mind. Don't get me wrong though I thought both had fine games and just ran out of gas.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

A bit of wishful thinking here and there. And some of those selections you know just won't happen. Here's my remarks:

1. Steven Kitshoff (why not test this guy now, he can't be worse than Beast or Nyakane)
2. Adriaan Strauss (Contrary to what you may think, he's one of the few runners we used this past weekend that actually got us over the advantage line).
3. Julian Redelinghuys
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Franco Mostert
6. Jaco Kriel
7. PSDT
8. Warren Whiteley (if fit, otherwise bring in Carr).
9. Faf de Klerk
10. Elton Jantjies (sure he had a bad game with the boot, but he got more confidence as the game progressed).
11. Ruan Combrink
12. De Allende (with Serfontein injured, there isn't many other capped centres left or in the 31-man squad. De Allende needs to get his tackling better now that he can attack again)
13. Jesse Kriel (Mapoe hasn't shown the same form as in the Super Rugby, and my worry is that he's one of the guys who just can't make the step up)
14. JPP (Who else????)
15. Willie Le Roux (also playing a bit better every week)

16. Malcolm Marx (Bongi hasn't played a single second the first 2 tests, so just as well bring in Marx).
17. Beast
18. Vincent Koch or Marcel v/d Merwe
19. Lood De Jager/RG Snyman
20. Arno Botha/Nizam Carr
21. Paige/Van Zyl/Groom
22. Morne Steyn
23. Mapoe

LOL but our ideas are very much on the same page. I'm just wondering how much stock AC is going to put in 'form' and how much in on the one side experience and on the other keeping the politicians somewhat happy. This is the thing with quotas, if you barely make your numbers and you make 1 swap you have to ake two to keep the numbers IE Coetzee is all but forced to bring in Combrinck to sure up our ability under the high ball if nothing else, does he now let the politically minded make their noise or peace or does he make another change to balance the sheet?

Like you say I cant see him make wholesale changes. He'll probably keep Strauss captain and Mbonambi wil stay there on the bench as window dressing and making up the numbers. That's a huge risk though. What if Strauss actually gets injured aor you need that extra man to make impact off of the bench.

Agreed Mapoe hasn't set the world alight but I'd say he stays on as he hasn't been poor as such either while a lot of that is down to De Allende on his inside and the Irish shutting us down well and its not like Jesse Kriel has been in awesome form. At leat Mapoe fills a quota spot.

 

[saulan]

I think you both have a bit of wishful thinking in your teams. Carr, Botha and Marx I really think don't stand a chance of getting in at this point. None of them have been in the squad, at best they can get in at RC, but not at this stage. I'm rather going to go for a predicted 23

1. Beast (He won't not start him)
2. Adriaan Strauss (Because captain)
3. Julian Redelinghuys (He has performed, hopefully he gets rewarded)
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. PSDT (I really don't see AC not starting him at lock)
6. Louw (He will start, we are low on stocks here at the moment and he is experienced, regardless of form)
7. Jaco Kriel
8. Warren Whiteley (if fit).
9. Faf de Klerk
10. Elton Jantjies
11. Ruan Combrink
12. De Allende
13. Lionel Mapoe
14. JPP
15. Willie Le Roux

16. Mbonambi (because its either him or Ntuben in the squad)
17. Nyakane (I don't think Kitshoff will get a go)
18. Malherbe (he won't drop him from the squad)
19. Franco Mostert
20. Notshe (He has played well for SA A and has been in the squad so knows the gameplans)
21. Paige
22. Morne Steyn
23. Mvovo (unfortunately)

Edit: I forgot about Kolisi. He isn't going to get dropped. If Whiteley is fit, drop Kriel to the bench and put Kolisi in the starting side. If Whiteley isn't fit, put Kolisi at the back, Kriel on the Flank and Notshe on the bench.

 

[Rockradar]

Combrink, De Allande and Le Roux are the future. My favourite Boks at the moment.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

@Rockradar I'm sure any team outside of SA will want Le Roux starting LOL.

@saulan, ja, I read through your team and was going to say they robs won't drop Kolisi then I saw your edited remark. What I expect then:

1 Mtawarira won't get dropped
2 Strauss also because captain and only hooker in the squad
3 Redelinghuys because Malherbe has had a terrible run
4 Etzebeth
5 PSdT/Mostert though here I wouldn't be surprised if Mostert starts with De Jager on the bench and PSdT at blindside
6 Louw/Kolis/maybe Kriel?.. here I'd love Kriel. they havn't given him a shot yet. Maybe they play him and Kitshoff on the basis of giving everyone a go? Ntubeni and Mbonambi though..
7 Kolisi/PSdT
8 Whiteley
9 De Klerk
10 Jantjies
11 Combrinck
12 De Allende
13 Mapoe
14 JPP
15 Le Roux

 

[Sker]

I reckon the only changes we'll see is Whiteley on for Vermeulen and Redelinghuys on for Malherbe. Oh and probably Psdt for Lood.

Kollisi and Louw will stay. We can only pray Combrinck starts, I don't know if that'll upset the quota balance though.

 

[JohnKA]

Get Andre Esterhuizen in and drop de Allende !!!

 

[WaterboySA]

Combrink, De Allande and Le Roux are the future. My favourite Boks at the moment.

You can have the last 2. Free of charge. Actually you can have both 12 and 13 to keep Willie company.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I reckon the only changes we'll see is Whiteley on for Vermeulen and Redelinghuys on for Malherbe. Oh and probably Psdt for Lood.

Kollisi and Louw will stay. We can only pray Combrinck starts, I don't know if that'll upset the quota balance though.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/bok-starting-role-for-jaco-kriel-20160621

This article seems to suggest both Whiteley and Kriel will start with either Kolisi or Louw. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

Edit; I think the author has an 'or' there where it should be an 'and'. Probably a direct quote from AC but its muddles the intended meaning. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Lood wasn't even in the matchday 23? I expect both Redelinghuys and Combrinck to start. Probably he'll have Mvovo on the bench over Jesse Kriel for the quota since Combrinck can cover for Le Roux but I do feel Jesse is the better bet; just imagine we need a back three replacement in the 10th minute and Mvovo comes on to be peppered with kicks again..

Get Andre Esterhuizen in and drop de Allende !!!

+1

Though TBF when at his best De Allende can cause havoc. Not that Esterhuizen isn't well able himself and he is as safe as houses on defense. A good option to have long term so that if De Allende gets injured or is off form (like present) we have a like for like replacement thugh probably Esterhuzen needs another year of SR.

 

[Rockradar]

You can have the last 2. Free of charge. Actually you can have both 12 and 13 to keep Willie company.

I wish you were a someone that COULD give those players, but sadly youre not

We'll see who gets selected shall we.

 

[JohnKA]

Think paul jordaan should also be given a chance solid on defence and can destroy defence with his speed and step

- - - Updated - - -

backline of :

9.Faf
10.Jantjies / Lambie
11.Combrinck
12.Andre Esterhuizen
13.Paul Jordaan
14.Jp
15.willie le roux / jesse kriel

think this can do some damage

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Think paul jordaan should also be given a chance solid on defence and can destroy defence with his speed and step

- - - Updated - - -

backline of :

9.Faf
10.Jantjies / Lambie
11.Combrinck
12.Andre Esterhuizen
13.Paul Jordaan
14.Jp
15.willie le roux / jesse kriel

think this can do some damage

Whoah, hold on, now you're just showing your Sharks bias or looking t 'show off' LOL. Just go ahead and add Reinach and Sithole/Mvovo, you know you want to!

Sadly for me as a Stormers supporter... there's always De Allende but he needs to pick it up big time!

 

[JohnKA]

Whoah, hold on, now you're just showing your Sharks bias or looking t 'show off' LOL. Just go ahead and add Reinach and Sithole/Mvovo, you know you want to!

Sadly for me as a Stormers supporter... there's always De Allende but he needs to pick it up big time!

haha , cobus backup for faf yes maybe Kolbe in for JP still has a lot of firepower it the backline would click

 

[Sker]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/bok-starting-role-for-jaco-kriel-20160621

This article seems to suggest both Whiteley and Kriel will start with either Kolisi or Louw. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

Edit; I think the author has an 'or' there where it should be an 'and'. Probably a direct quote from AC but its muddles the intended meaning. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Lood wasn't even in the matchday 23? I expect both Redelinghuys and Combrinck to start. Probably he'll have Mvovo on the bench over Jesse Kriel for the quota since Combrinck can cover for Le Roux but I do feel Jesse is the better bet; just imagine we need a back three replacement in the 10th minute and Mvovo comes on to be peppered with kicks again..



+1

Though TBF when at his best De Allende can cause havoc. Not that Esterhuizen isn't well able himself and he is as safe as houses on defense. A good option to have long term so that if De Allende gets injured or is off form (like present) we have a like for like replacement thugh probably Esterhuzen needs another year of SR.

Woops my bad, got confused with two weeks ago!

Awesome, that article gives me a little more hope.

So if Warren is injured we'll see Jaco start, otherwise on the bench with Notshe?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Woops my bad, got confused with two weeks ago!

Awesome, that article gives me a little more hope.

So if Warren is injured we'll see Jaco start, otherwise on the bench with Notshe?

That's about how I understand it. The article isn't too clear to me. Whether that's down to the language not being precise or my English comprehension letting me down I'm not 100% sure which.

Either way what I am getting from it is that 1) Vermeulen is out and 2) Kriel has a shot of getting a Bok cap. I'm happy. Hope Whiteley is fine though. I'm not sure where this article places Louw and Kolisi though. Whiteley needs to pass fit and I'm not sure how they are seeing Kriel AND Notshe in there? I am assuming:

6 Louw
7 Kolisi
8 Whiteley
20 Kriel

or

6 Louw
7 Kolisi
8 Notshe
20 Kriel

 

[Gena_ZA]

This new thing that we use the first half as warm up is messing with my nervous system and drinking habbits

- - - Updated - - -

Warren will play with Notshe as backup to no 8 on the bench
Louw will probably start again (bleh) with Kriel coming onto the bench

 

[saulan]

This new thing that we use the first half as warm up is messing with my nervous system and drinking habbits

- - - Updated - - -

Warren will play with Notshe as backup to no 8 on the bench
Louw will probably start again (bleh) with Kriel coming onto the bench

So Kolisi dropped? Or two loosies and no lock cover?

 

[die_mole]

can someone explain exactly how the quota system works? specifically who counts as black, how many in the 15 need to be black and how many of 23 need to be black?

from what i've heard in previous comments it sounds like all of the good non-white players don't actually count as being black; Beast, Habana, JPP etc.