Martin Johnson England manager/coach?

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by stormmaster1, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. stormmaster1

    stormmaster1 Guest

    Will he or won't he take up the job? and who will he want to work with?



    I reckon he will take up a position and the lengthy talks are simply establishing the details.

    In terms of coaching setup i could see him with Catt (not Healey), Rowntree and a couple more. Couldn't see Ashton retaining his job under Johnno.
     
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  3. danny

    danny Guest

    I hope he has a hands on role otherwise it would be pointless.Also I would like to see Dallaglio involved.
     
  4. nick_w

    nick_w Guest

    Can't see him and Ashton co-existing really, although I still think its on the cards so I'm expecting a bit of a backlash when it does on the backpages of the tabloids.

    In a sense of it working I'm a little worried about it. Obviously Johnno is a brilliant leader, but has he got the necessary skills to do this job properly? I guess we'll know this when the spec for the job is eventually released later this week.

    As for backroom staff, would love to see Rowntree play a role, as well as Back for the forwards. I'd like to see Healey as backs coach. I think he'd be very creative, was a jack-of-all-trades when he played so knows each position well and would bring a new cutting edge to England.

    It's just whether or not everyone is going to be comfortable with the decision (I'm looking your way Mr. Ashton!!)
     
  5. I don't see what the point of all this is really???? Is this just another plot to give someone a big fat paycheck because you have more coaches and people involved with the team then you know what to do with. I think half of England's problem is they have like 10 people in conflicting command position as in their chains criss-cross. Look at any other nation... ireland, france, wales, NZ, Australia... the coach is the central figure in the running of the team... in England u have everyone from Rob Andrew (asshole)... Francis Baron, Martin Johnson, Brian Ashton blahblahblah the list goes on involved with the "coaching"/"running" of this team its a flippin joke
     
  6. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    Ah, but they're jobs for the boys. As Will Carling once said, the RFU committee are "57 varieties of old farts" who will do anything they can to keep their stranglehold on the upper echilons of the sport in England.

    That's why the whold setup is in such disarray, why the club v country rows started and why fans are totally ****** off with Rugby England.
     
  7. nick_w

    nick_w Guest

    Thing is, Aston has asked for a team manager, but not to take control of team affairs (i.e. where the problem really lies). He feels that because he isn't exactly media savvy, he can't pick a good team. To a certain point, too many cooks do spoil the broth, but I can only see Johnson's inclusion in the set up as a benefit rather than a hinderence.

    At the end of the day, I do feel that the an overhaul would do English rugby good, but at the same time, this is simply an euphoric dream which is not likely to happen an time soon, so we'll have to make do with including someone who knows his rugby. Guess we find out in about 15 hours time. The tension is so unbearable, I might just fall asleep. ;)
     
  8. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_unio...ish/7349845.stm

    What a sad way for Brian to leave. Yes, we did want him to go but we never wanted anyone to be strung along for months and then told to bugger off, especially after being told that his job was secure.

    He's been treated like some sort of lepper and the way that Andrew, Baron & co have snuck around behind his back (with even Johnson joining in by holding secret talks with Shaun Edwards) is simply cringeworthy. Absolutely cringeworthy.

    If Andrew wanted a Sir Clive style set up, why didn't he ask for one in the gazillions of reviews he's done since the World Cup Final?

    Wait, wait...I shouldn't have asked that. In a nation which spends over half a billion to winch some <strike>portacabins</strike> thinking pods into place to make a National Parliament, in a nation which can't even manage to switch on a baggage handling system properly, in a nation which still can't quite do allot of things, is this latest management fiasco really surprising?
     
  9. Macsen

    Macsen Guest

    I'm still convinced Wales and England's suits got mixed up after the World Cup. Probably got on the wrong plane. After a few afternoon drinks could they tell one rugby union headquarters from another?
     
  10. nick_w

    nick_w Guest

    Completely agree with you Prestwick. The way Ashton has been treated is simply abysmal.

    Whilst I did want to see him gone, the fact that Andrew said he had an opportunity to pick his own team manager, all the while rallying support behind Johnno, is nothing short of deceitful wickedness.

    The RFU should be disgusted by it's behaviour, love him or hate him, Ashton's legacy will go down as taking an England team who were well short of the mark to a World Cup Final.

    No doubt his dismissal will improve the team, and no doubt many people support it (including yours truly), but the way in which it has been taken care of can only be seen as shambolic.
     
  11. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    *Francais Baron wakes up with a raging hangover in the WRU garden shed*

    ooohh...f***! Not again!
     
  12. Nidhogg

    Nidhogg Guest

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_unio...ish/7349845.stm

    A good move in my opinion. Not even judging Ashton's ability as a coach, it creates a far more professional structure. BA is touted by many as a great backs coach, but he seems to have been doing too much on his own. A manager that stands above his coaches can focus more on the selection and strategy, while he can have his coaches focus on specific back/forward/fitness theme's.

    Now, the big question, is he up for it? Plenty of experience in leading and rugby, but has never trained or managed a side before. Is he up for it? And more interestingly, will he provide a radical new selection policy for england, or stick with Ashton's "evolution not revolution" policy?
     
  13. Well motivation certainly shouldn't be a problem any more.

    Strange and questionnable as his appointment may seem, let's now focus on the man himself and not the manner the whole debacle has come about.

    Will Greenwood believes Johnson to be one of the most tactically astute and open minded players he has worked with, and Will Greenwood knows his stuff. While he may not have previous management experience, Johnson knows rugby inside out. This job may be too much too soon, however I think he has the potential, character and nouse to become a coach of the highest calibre.
     
  14. RC

    RC Guest

    Yikes, this is very much a sink or swim scenario.
    I mean, Johnno having no previous coaching experience gets thrown into the deep end of international rugby and expected to deal with it.
    I'm sure he has confidence in himself and he may do a good job, but who will be in his coaching staff? Will he have someone to rely on, will there be a Shaun Edwards to His Gatland? A coach can only do so much without his choice of a staff behind him; will he choose who he gets, will he be stuck with the same ones there now, or will Mr. Andrew choose some new guys for him?
     
  15. Nidhogg

    Nidhogg Guest

    Johnson wouldn't be the first ex-player/legend to become a good coach. Look at football, Johan Cruijff and Marco van Basten. Both became trainers (first director in Cruijff's case) of big clubs, and never looked back from their appointment. Van Basten only trained the Ajax youth before he took over the dutch national squad, and he holds the best ever win/loss record of any dutch national manager.

    Like those two, Johnson has a huge presence on and off the field. He seems fairly intelligent, and "streetwise". He'll do the job.

    Edit: (could a mod edit this into the OP?)

    Strangely enough, the BBC changed their article. First it said Rowntree and co. would certainly remain as coaches, Johnson only looking for a backs coach to complement. Now, that part has disappeared. The earlier version also stated that Johnson would have total control over selection and coaching staff.
     
  16. danny

    danny Guest

    Im really glad Ashton has got the boot as he hasnt come up with the results on the pitch, simple as that. Its got nothing to do with him as a person, its purely business. The way it has been handled is typical of the current (same for the last 100 years) RFU top brass.
    I recently went on a stadium tour with my son to Twickenham and had to visit the RFU headquaters across the road. It just smacked of the old boys network, the way Francis Baron has his own parking space for his £250,000 Bentley. It was a way of saying We are in charge, its our sport! It just sent out all the wrong messages in my opinion. Rugby should be all about Rugby people and if you have people in charge of Englands affairs who are in it for the wrong reasons then no-one can be suprised when things are handled poorly.
     
  17. Sir Speedy

    Sir Speedy Guest

    Because a World Cup final is no longer a good result...
    Seriously, what are you talking about? England had a poor Six Nations considering their World Cup but they still finished in their highest position since 2003. I think you're being a bit harsh on him, especially that you're glad he got the boot. I can't say I've liked Ashton since his appointment; during every interview he always seems stuck-up. For example:
    Interviewer: "So Brian, what do you think about the comments that you'll lose your job if you lose this game (against Ireland)".
    Ashton: "What, I'm not doing a good enough job am I?"
    Still, the way this has been handled by the RFU is awful but I concede that it will be the right decision for England in the long term.
     
  18. jeffb

    jeffb Guest

    Personnally think that Ashton, has been Shat on from a great height. Typical RFU old farts.
     
  19. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    57 varieties of.
     
  20. jeffb

    jeffb Guest

    The Heinz Variety
     
  21. danny

    danny Guest

    Because a World Cup final is no longer a good result...
    Seriously, what are you talking about? England had a poor Six Nations considering their World Cup but they still finished in their highest position since 2003. I think you're being a bit harsh on him, especially that you're glad he got the boot. I can't say I've liked Ashton since his appointment; during every interview he always seems stuck-up. For example:
    Interviewer: "So Brian, what do you think about the comments that you'll lose your job if you lose this game (against Ireland)".
    Ashton: "What, I'm not doing a good enough job am I?"
    Still, the way this has been handled by the RFU is awful but I concede that it will be the right decision for England in the long term.
    [/b][/quote]
    Lets not beat around the bush Sir Speedy, England have been woefull during Astons reign. yes they reached the WC final but only after the senior players decided to rip up whatever gameplan Ashton had tried to put into action. 2nd in the 6 nations sounds ok but when you look at the performances you have to admit it was terrible apart from the Ireland game.As for Ashton being stuck up, you`re Welsh you think every English person is stuck up.
     
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