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RWC Quarter Final: All Blacks - Argentina (09-10-2011, 20:30)

Well, about under achieving and over achieving:

To me , Taking in count what was posted before , we saw Argentina winning only 1 match of 9 in the first 3 WC , and then reaching QF (1999) , barely miss QF for 1 point against ireland (2003) , 3rd place (2007) and QF (2011) , is a sign of progress, hard work , and the pursuit of a target and reaching it , based on the previous years to the last 2 WC (including 2011).

If we use the same criteria to measure AB , every WC they are suppost to be champios, but only won in 1987. In between cups Ab is the No 1 team , beating everyone and having unbeatable stadistics.....but failling to win the WC

With this i don´t mean Pumas are better than AB , i think that AB are far way better that us , but that has to be shown in the field . And there are 90 % to see that this sunday.

THe conclusion is that Argentina have a team to consider , whit highs and lows , but constantly porogressing and making troubles and adversity a kind of engine to reach the target , and there`s that 10% for us.

To play against AB , in their home , in a knock out stage , is something , that for most of our players will happen only once in their life ( maybe they will reach another QF , but who knows where and against who? And that´s the most important engine of this team , the humility to face each compromise .

THey know that there is nothing much left form what we have seen , an that makes every argentinian player giving a 110% ,thus , taking that 10 % to an 11 %:)

Regards

Martin
 
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Yes and in 2003, 1 point and a penalty that the ref didn't see, isn't it? Anyway...

I have a good feeling in Imhoff for this match at the end of the match with a closer score... and why not another Amorosino's maradona try... jaja

P.d: SBW wing? SBW rules, is that kind of players that everyone wants in their own team....
 
Yes and in 2003, 1 point and a penalty that the ref didn't see, isn't it? Anyway...

Before anyone from Scotland brings it up, pot...kettle...black.

Come one mate, that's the kind of post that kills your credibility. Loving your country and supporting its team shouldn't be incompatible with being objective.
 
Before anyone from Scotland brings it up, pot...kettle...black.

Come one mate, that's the kind of post that kills your credibility. Loving your country and supporting its team shouldn't be incompatible with being objective.

jaja... yeah, Cruz, I guess you are right...

Let's discuss about this game...
 
Before anyone from Scotland brings it up, pot...kettle...black.

Come one mate, that's the kind of post that kills your credibility. Loving your country and supporting its team shouldn't be incompatible with being objective.

Agree

There was a time when referees were in some kind forgiving more to top teams than the others, giving them an " extra second" or something like that , if you know what i mean , but in the last 12- 15 years if there is something that a referre doesn´t call is because he didn´t saw it , or maybe saw something that tv analized wasn´t a fault.

Like i said before, they´re human and can make mistakes, and the mistakes are equal to everybody. The problem is , when the referee , in the 2 or 3 minutes after the call is in doubt of is decision, and then search some kind of compensation to the affected team ( just like it seems Mr Owens did in SA-Samoa at the end of the match , both players should be penalized, Samoan with red card an SA whit Yellow when they were fighting at the ruck , and not show the yellow card to J. Smith some minutes after, for somethig that was clearly a handling error and not an intentional knock on ) . Maybe the assistant wasn´t clear about the explanation of the situation to referee Nigel , and that lead him to a mistake.
THere are many variables , so the best is to leave it there , there is nothing to win blaming referees for their desicions

Martin


PD : leave the complaints to the football players. You´lll have a show of complaints today in Argentina Vs Chile
 
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wow GH is actually doing what i initially said on having SBW on 11 :D (only cuz iof the injuries to Kahui en guildford paddaman :D) this will be interesting!!!

I think everyone forgot SBW has played on the wing for his club... it is club level yes but its still wing... on this level you just have to step up!!!


Huh? In his one game for the Belfast he was an inside centre. He never started on the wing while playing for Toulon or the Crusaders and I believe he played one game all season on the wing in the ITM Cup. Hardly can say he has played one the wing. The most number of games he's played on the wing, is the last few for the All Blacks.
 
We all know that Los Pumas have to play "the perfect match" to win and the All Blacks have their worst match ever!! There's still a difference between both teams that should be shorten when Argentina play more test matches and tournaments!!
My hope is to be worthy rivals for the All Blacks, shake hands and start thinking about the future.
 
According to NZ Herald, Cory Jane has been pretty relaxed heading into this game. Couple drinks and smokes, no worries...

All Blacks star Cory Jane went on a drinking binge and lit up a cigarette inside a packed Auckland bar - less than 72 hours before playing in today's Rugby World Cup quarter-final.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10757700

I wonder if he'll play. And I guess the more important question is, why is this story only out now if the incident was 48 hours ago? Maybe the story is a massive beat up? What do the kiwi's think?


 
I reckon it's propaganda to see if they can cause any upsets. I don't think Jane actually smokes.
 
Am I mad for thinking "who cares". 72 hours is a long time.
 
According to NZ Herald, Cory Jane has been pretty relaxed heading into this game. Couple drinks and smokes, no worries...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10757700

I wonder if he'll play. And I guess the more important question is, why is this story only out now if the incident was 48 hours ago? Maybe the story is a massive beat up? What do the kiwi's think?



If the story's true, and they wanted to discipline him, there's not exactly a lot of fit outside backs that they could play in his spot ... Toeava could start in his position, but who would cover the bench spot?
 
Only a few (well 8) hours until kick-off. Starting to get a bit more excited about the game. I expect it will be a good contest up front, but I expect the AB's will have a big edge in the loose, even though McCaw and Read aren't at 100%. It will be interesting to see whether McCaw gets given a rest after 60 mins if the AB's have a good lead (to rest his foot).

Looking forward to the Weepu/Slade combo - I feel it is the best combination we have now that Carter is out. The important things is that Weepu plays his natural game - backing his instincts and getting the ball quickly out the backs - rather than the slower controlled game he can play at times (which can often allow opposition defenses to re-align). Slade is looking more comfortable the more gametime he gets, and will want to show improvements again in this match. I feel Nonu is going to cause Argentina a lot of problems. He is in great form, and Contepomi's defense has been pretty poor, so I expect him to run a lot down the 10/12 channel. I'm hoping SBW, Jane, Muliaina have big games, which I expect they will if they get quality ball.

Overall I'm pretty confident of an AB's win - I'm picking them to win by about 20 points.
 
We'll see McCaw pull out at about half time, I'm sure. His injury is definitely more serious than is being reported. I'll be surprised if we see 150 minutes out of him in three matches, even if we win the World Cup.
 
Some stats to consider. As with always these are averages for the RWC pool games. For NZ I will also throw
in their 2011 average where appropriate

Overall closeness in 1st and 2nd half possession and territory is very strange. Defence was a surprise, not so much in for NZ's RWC but comparing NZ
pre-RWC game with Argentina's RWC games

Time, possession and territory

  • NZ like to have 1st half possession. In RWC they have had 57% possession for 1st half. This is 2nd highest in RWC. In 2011, they are averaging 54% possession. NZ have had the majority of possession in all but one of their 2011 games (Eden park v Australia). Argentina also like 1st half possession and are 4th highest in RWC with 56%, just behind NZ.
  • 1st half territory is also close with Argentina 10th with 50% and NZ with 48%. NZ not having the majority of territory throughout 2011 and have an average of 45%.
  • In the 2nd half both team have less possession and more territory. Argentina's possession is 52% (7th highest), NZ 50% (10th). NZ 2nd half possession in 2011 is 55%. 2nd half territory for Argentina in RWC is 57%, 3rd highest, NZ 56% 5th highest. In 2011 NZ 2nd half possession is 56%.
  • Overall both Argentina is just ahead of NZ in possession and territory. Argentina's possession is 54% and territory 53% 4th highest in both regards. NZ possession is 53% and 52% for territory, 6th highest in both regards. In 2011 NZ's possession is 54% and territory 50%.
  • In in opp 22 is also very equal. NZ spend 17% in RWC 5th highest, Argentina 16% 8th highest. NZ in RWC has improved it time in opp 22. In 2011 it is 16%, before RWC 2011 average was 16%.
  • NZ in 2011 played a pretty fast game. They would like the ball in play for 18-20 minutes per half. They blew the opposition away. In 2011. The two games they lost were fast games, so RSA and AUS can play fast games and beat NZ. In RWC NZ are 13th-14th ranking for ball in play and are sitting in the 16-17th minute mark. Have they changes the game plan?
Points
  • Argentina are 26% more likely in RWC to receive a penalty kick on the LEFT side of the field than the right side of the field.
  • Argentina are 61% more likely to concede a RWC penalty that the opposition ended up as a kick at the goal on the LEFT side of the field than the right field.
  • Argentina are 66% more likely to score a RWC try on the RIGHT side of the field than the right side of the field.
  • NZ are over 2 & 1/2 times more likely in RWC to receive a penalty kick on the RIGHT side of the field than the left side of the field.
  • NZ are over 2 times more likely to score a RWC try on the LEFT side of the field than the left side of the field. Remember they haven't used the same backline or wing combos in the RWC.
  • NZ are over 2 & 1/2 times more likely to concede a RWC penalty that the opposition take kick at the goal on the RIGHT side of the field
    than the left field. Seeing the penalty pattern here?
  • NZ are over 2 times more likely to concede a RWC try on the LEFT side of the field than the right side of the field.
  • NZ kickers. In RWC Slade 63% (15/24), Weepu 4/4. In 2011 Slade 66% (27 from 41), Cruden 78% (77/99) and yes Cruden's numbers included ITM cup.
  • Argentina kickers: In RWC Contempomi 50% (7/14), Rodriguez 47% (8/17).
  • Drop goals in it comes down to it: Rodriguez 0/1, Camacho 0/1, Fernandez 0/1. Only Carter is doing drop goals this year.
Attack
  • Argentina are averaging 3.3 phases, 8th highest in RWC. This is higher than NZ's 2.8, 17th lowest in the comp, but is consistent with NZ in 2011 of 3.1.
  • NZ hardly go over 10+ phases in RWC, and are the lowest for this aspect.
  • NZ are 2nd highest for breaking tackles in the OPP 22, with 10 a game, are are highest for breaking tackles between halfway and OPP 22.
  • NZ lead the comp with 11 offloads a game and charge downs.
  • Argentina kick a lot. Lead the comp with kicks in play, which is either a lack of game plan or one that isn't working. Both teams tend to not kick for touch on the comp with Argentina 14th lowest and NZ 19th lowest.
  • Despite kicking in open play, Argentina's 1st 5/8 are the lowest in the comp for kicking from set play/recycled ball or as first receiver. NZ's 1st 5/8 pass more than any other team from set piece/recycled ball as 1st receiver.
Defence
  • Both team defensively are pretty good in RWC. Argentina are missing on average 1 in every 7.7 tackle attempts, NZ 1 in every 7.4 tackle attempts. This is 4th and 5th highest respectively. In 2011 NZ are missing 1 in 6.6. Heading into RWC they were missing 1 in 6.0.
  • Argentina miss the 72% of RWC tackles in their own half. NZ in RWC miss 50% in own half. NZ before RWC were missing 71% of tackle in own half, so against better opposition NZ leak about that same as Argentina.
Errors
  • Both team value the pill pretty well. Argentina are losing possession/turning over the ball 17.8 times a game (15th lowest), NZ 18.3 times
    (13th lowest). In 2011 NZ's average is 19.4.
  • Argentina are 5th highest for losing the ball to counter rucking, 3.8 per game. NZ are 17th lowest with 2.3 per game, much lower than their 2011 3.2 average.
  • Argentina concede 10.3 pens a game NZ 9.8. Both teams are ranked in the middle. RWC has brought NZ's penalty count up to 8.7 for 2011.
  • Both team concede 6 to 6.5 pens as ruck making them 6th and 7th highest in RWC.
  • They also concede about the same amount of pens at scrum, against 2.0 to 2.3 making them 6th and 5th highest respectively.
  • Argentina concede the lowest number of free kicks in the comp.
Set pieces
  • Argentina lead the comp with not straight lineouts on their throws.
  • Strangely both team are 4th highest equal for having a lineout knocked by them or their opposition.
  • Again strangely both team are 15th equal for quick lineout throws.
  • Argentina favour the front and middle equally for lineout throws. NZ favour the middle.
  • Argentina's scrums are the 2nd highest for scrum resets. Hmm what the ref like on that.
Ref Owens.
  • Won't have any street named after him in Samoa
  • 5.0 scrum resets 3rd highest of the the 10 RWC refs.
  • 4.8 scrum infringements ranked 7th.
  • 17.3 pens awarded 9th highest.
  • 9.8 ruck pens 9th highest.
  • 4.0 scrum pens, 3rd highest.
  • 0.0 lineout pens 5th equal highest.
  • 2.3 pens for offside 6th highest.
  • 4.3 pens are inside the 22, 10th so the lowest. Means NZ needs a kicker who can get from a distance.
  • 3.0 pens awarded end up with the team taking a shot at the posts.
  • Is the only ref in the comp who doesn't have a left or right penalty bias.
  • 1.5 free kicks 3rd highest.
 
And now for something completely different than the other quarterfinal today: a rugby match.
 
We'll see McCaw pull out at about half time, I'm sure. His injury is definitely more serious than is being reported. I'll be surprised if we see 150 minutes out of him in three matches, even if we win the World Cup.

I think your right, I want to see Warbuton take him on in the final.

Good luck to both teams today. As long as Argentina put in a fight I will be happy.
 

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