RWC: Samoa - Wales (18-9-11, 15:30)

[TRF_Olyy]

Well, he got it correct (I think), but it was the wrong call. It wasn't a double movement: there's no such thing in rugby union, and it's worrying that the misconception is so prevalent, that no-one really picks up on it.

Yes there is

Law 15.5 (c) states:
A tackled player may release the ball by putting it on the ground in any direction, provided
this is done immediatel


and (g) states:
If a player is tackled near the goal line, that player may immediately reach out and ground
the ball on or over the goal line to score a try or make a touch down.



Combine the two: Once you're tackled you have either immediately present the ball or are allowed to reach out and ground the ball - you're not allowed to reach out adn then move to try and do it, it has to be immediate otherwise it's playing the ball on the ground

 

[Dizzy]

Yes there is

Law 15.5 (c) states:
A tackled player may release the ball by putting it on the ground in any direction, provided
this is done immediatel


and (g) states:
If a player is tackled near the goal line, that player may immediately reach out and ground
the ball on or over the goal line to score a try or make a touch down.



Combine the two: Once you're tackled you have either immediately present the ball or are allowed to reach out and ground the ball - you're not allowed to reach out adn then move to try and do it, it has to be immediate otherwise it's playing the ball on the ground

Olyy my main man, can you email this to Mr. O'Brien and ask him to re-train his referees as I feel this is yet another double standard.
What happened on this occassion to Samoa before the line happens in every match in any area of the field. Players get tackled and roll an extra couple of metres, surely the laws suggest this is illegal. I've seen players get tackled and fall in a most unfortunate position they actualy turn and flop their bodies so they can present the ball to better suit their team, ["double movement anyone?"].

There is just too many double standards in the game that it's getting a little TOO much. I mean, players are getting knock on calls for the ball being ripped out, unfair and completely wrong.

The referees need to buck up their s***.

 

[Bluemoon]

I agree with alot of comments about silly mistakes fromWales and that these need to be ironed out because it's drastically inteupting our flow of play. In particular the constant lineout mistakes. This game was won through the sheer physicality and rigid organisation in defence. South Africa struggled with it and now it has stopped a hugely physical team from steam rolling a victory. It was great to see Gethin back and JR was fantastic once again.

 

[Siva Tau]

Well, Wales played poorly and won. Samoa played well and lost. Pretty much a reverse of last week but that's rugby. .

aint thats the truth

 

[Siva Tau]

As a welshman i watched the whole 80 minutes of that game feeling VERY nervous and i sit here now watching this negative rugby from england feeling very relieved.
Samoa were dangerous, very dangerous. In my opinion, they played the better rugby today and deserved the win more than wales. They were turning us over so often, they looked more threatening in attack and came closer to scoring more often than us. At the end of the day i'm still surprised that we won that game.
Very rarely did a string of phases go by where we didn't muck up and that meant we didn't get any momentum. Such a difficult game but i'm proud of our boys for coming through it with a win.

appreciate your honesty, enjoy rest of the games bro

 

[Siva Tau]

I think Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu needs to get some perspective....

View attachment 1317

Put it down to the heat of the moment. Thats said its good to hear many now coming out to voice disapproval of the scheduling.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Olyy my main man, can you email this to Mr. O'Brien and ask him to re-train his referees as I feel this is yet another double standard.
What happened on this occassion to Samoa before the line happens in every match in any area of the field. Players get tackled and roll an extra couple of metres, surely the laws suggest this is illegal. I've seen players get tackled and fall in a most unfortunate position they actualy turn and flop their bodies so they can present the ball to better suit their team, ["double movement anyone?"].

There is just too many double standards in the game that it's getting a little TOO much. I mean, players are getting knock on calls for the ball being ripped out, unfair and completely wrong.

The referees need to buck up their s***.

You can imagine my frustration at that call when I had money on Fa'asavalu as the first try scorer paying $35 to $1... Safe to say I was not happy.

 

[Dizzy]

You can imagine my frustration at that call when I had money on Fa'asavalu as the first try scorer paying $35 to $1... Safe to say I was not happy.

Most certainly. I feel we share the same amount of frustration, although mine is on the poor refereeing and your loss of 350 bucks

 

[Siva Tau]

My take.

A very tough competitive match that we all expected. I thought in the first half we probably should have had 3(Perenise, fa'asavalu & Tagicakibau) tries and Wales 1(the Roberts forward pass). The second half was closer with Wales scoring very much against the run of play.

Generally I thought Rolland was a tad biased but not as bad as I expected. I was waiting for him to suggest Schwalger talk to the team with threats of yellow cards which thankfully didnt come. Very competitive scrummaging, whilst both teams had problems in the lineout. In the losse it was fierce with Samoa on top for most of the match and Warburton prominent in last 20 mins.

Samoa threatened the try line more and for longer periods albeit only for one try. I couldnt help but think Tuilagi need to hit the ball at pace under the posts when camped on the Welsh line with 4 mins to go. I think the decision making here was poor.

Wales never gave up and took there opportunity. I thought the pass when it went to ground went forward with the Samoan players nearby appealing. Rolland didnt want a bar of it.

The finish was great and Wales triumphed. Worthy protagonists.

I thought Samoa looked a little tired in last 20 mins despite making most of the attack.

IMO Fa'asavalu didnt score, no way. We had chances and didnt take them.

We need to now look ahead to Fiji who will be tough. Forget Sth Africa for now.

As for Eliota, I think his comments were made in the heat of the moment and he should leave other people to raise those issues with IRB. You were selected to play. Thats said its good to now hear a chorus of people including Frenchman Marc Lievremont condemn the IRB for its unfair scheduling.

Big props to the Welsh fans, there love of rugby is infectious and of course to all the Manu crew who love our team, win, lose or draw.

In light of Wales-Samoa history in World cups maybe they can play bi-annually for a Cup

 

[donmcdazzle]

Most certainly. I feel we share the same amount of frustration, although mine is on the poor refereeing and your loss of 350 bucks

Your call on the kind of selective application on the rules depending on the field position is accurate too. I too get annoyed when refs call knock ons when it is stripped backwards by defenders.

Another thing that annoys me is when a team has control of the ball in a ruck, and you will see players rolling it back with their hands to make it easier for the halfback.. never gets penalised even though it is hands in the ruck and if a players from the defending team did it he would get penalised.

 

[Dizzy]

Exactly. These guys choose to become referees and interpret the laws, please do your job.

 

[aucklander]

Was at the game yesterday, and boy were the welsh supporters loud. It was good to be amongst it all and enjoying the rugby with our welsh brothers and sisters. Awesome game from both teams. It looked really even out there only disappointment was Tasesa Lavea staying on the pitch for far too long. Don't understand why the bench for Samoa was not brought in earlier. That was the turning point for Wales, i thought gatland and co made a really good decision and paid off. Also the refs thus far in the rwc have been terrible. The whole schedule is unfair but that's the way the big IRB boys want to make Rugby very one sided and only competitive for the tier 1 nations.

By the way well done to Wales on the win. Fjiji Next for Wales who knows what fiji team will turn up
Samoa still has a chance don't rule them out now. This will all come down to points differential.

Still see Samoa and South Africa going through from this pool

 

[Dizzy]

Well, if Samoa beat SA outside of 7pts then win their next games convincingly it'll be Wales and Samoa proceeding won't it?

 

[aucklander]

Yes your correct there mate.

Possible Out comes for the Pool of Death

This is how i see the table in the coming weeks, from all four teams - S.Africa, Samoa, Wales, Fiji

• Win - 4 points
• Draw - 2 points
• Loss - 0 points
• 4 or more tries - 1 point
• Loss by 7 points or less - 1 point

S.Africa's road to the Quarter's
Current - 9pts
This Week vs Namibia - Win with Bonus Point, 14pts

Last game vs Samoa - Win with Bonus Point, 19pts
- Win no Bonus Point, 18pts
- Loss with Bonus Point, 15pts
- Loss no Bonus Point, 14pts
- Draw 16pts

Samoa's road to the Quarter's
Current - 6pts
This week vs Fiji - Win with Bonus Point, 11pts
- Win no Bonus Point, 10pts
- Loss with Bonus Point, 7pts
- Loss with no Bonus Point, 6pts
- Draw, 8pts
My Pick Samoa to win this game - 11pts

Last game vs S.Africa - Win with Bonus Point, 16pts
- Win no Bonus Point, 15pts
- Loss with Bonus Point, 12pts
- Loss no Bonus Point, 11pts
- Draw, 13pts

Wales road to the Quarter's
Current - 5pts
This Week vs Namibia - 10pts

Last game vs Fiji - Win with Bonus Point, 15pts
- Win no Bonus Point, 14pts
- Loss with Bonus Point, 11pts
- Loss no Bonus Point, 10pts
- Draw, 12pts

Fiji's road to the Quarter's
Current - 5pts
This week vs Samoa - Win with Bonus Point, 10pts
- Win no Bonus Point, 9pts
- Loss with Bonus Point, 6pts
- Loss with no Bonus Point, 5pts
- Draw, 7pts
Samoa to win hard fought match last 10mins, fiji manage Bonus Point - 6pts

Last game vs Wales - Win with Bonus Point, 11pts
- Win no Bonus Point, 10pts
- Loss with Bonus Point, 7pts
- Loss no Bonus Point, 6pts
- Draw, 8pts

My Prediction
Samoa to upset S.Africa and Fiji to upset Wales. South Africa to top pool and play Australia, Samoa vs Ireland
S.Africa - 15
Samoa - 15
Wales - 11
Fiji - 11

 

[DJRonStar]

I just want Samoa to win against Fiji then they can start calculating if they still have a chance of getting through to the quaterfinals. Happy for the boys to get 7 days rest and freshen up. This will do them all the world of good. Don't think there will be too many changes to the starting line up barring injury. Think David Lemi was unlucky not to get a bench spot. James So'oialo look a little lost and out of position and was also one of the villains who let the Welsh score with a miss tackle.

Fingeres crossed that Tuifua and Tusi Pisi have recovered and are ready for Sunday. Tasesa should of mixed it up with chip kick and grubbers. The Welsh backline could read what he was going to do and kept Mapusua and George Pisi at bay.

 

[j'nuh]

Yes there is

Law 15.5 (c) states:
A tackled player may release the ball by putting it on the ground in any direction, provided
this is done immediatel


and (g) states:
If a player is tackled near the goal line, that player may immediately reach out and ground
the ball on or over the goal line to score a try or make a touch down.



Combine the two: Once you're tackled you have either immediately present the ball or are allowed to reach out and ground the ball - you're not allowed to reach out adn then move to try and do it, it has to be immediate otherwise it's playing the ball on the ground

I agree that it's a penalty, but it isn't a double movement (it's holding onto the ball in a ruck). In rugby league, you cannot even immediately reach out to score a try after you've hit the ground with your arms because that's a double movement. We can immediately reach over in union, so double movement doesn't exist in union. What you're referring to is holding onto the ball in a ruck and not releasing. It's a separate charge. Rolland may as well have charged Fa'asavalu with "bad hair", because it gets as much mention in the law book as double movement does.

Of course, Fa'asavalu didn't get the try because he didn't release the ball then tried to get back up even though he'd been tackled. I'm just a little annoyed that even more people will now think that there's such thing as double movement in union.

 

[hitman51]

But if the game was truly global the Samoan and Welsh rugby teams would be about as competitive as the Samoan and Welsh football teams, so from our perspective maybe it's a good thing?! [/QUOTE]

You welsh a good at football with players like Bellamy and Bale it shows you have the talent, they need to pull their heads in and start believing in what wales can achieve. It was great seeing the all whites at the world cup but to be fair if we had to play the welsh an scots to qualify we wouldn't come close to ever making a world cup ever, not in this life time not in the next.

 

[hitman51]

forgot the mighty giggs

 

[Macsen]

Fiji to upset Wales.

I'd certainly be upset. But now that they've beaten Samoa I can't see Wales losing to Fiji, who aren't as good a team as they were in 2007. Wales are a better team and have shown in this match they they aren't as tactically naive as they were in France. Of course Wales will make heavy weather of it, but a loss, no.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I agree that it's a penalty, but it isn't a double movement (it's holding onto the ball in a ruck). In rugby league, you cannot even immediately reach out to score a try after you've hit the ground with your arms because that's a double movement.We can immediately reach over in union, so double movement doesn't exist in union. What you're referring to is holding onto the ball in a ruck and not releasing. It's a separate charge. Rolland may as well have charged Fa'asavalu with "bad hair", because it gets as much mention in the law book as double movement does.

Of course, Fa'asavalu didn't get the try because he didn't release the ball then tried to get back up even though he'd been tackled. I'm just a little annoyed that even more people will now think that there's such thing as double movement in union.[/QUOTE
Double movement is just another phrase for playing the ball on the floor though, as (for example) they reach out, then push themselves forward
I've seen many refs call it that, whether or not it's specifically called that or not doesn't really matter, the rule's still there and they're following the laws of the game