[RWC2019][Pool A] Round 2 - Russia vs. Samoa (24/09/2019)

[Tim Jackson]

Blimey, the replays at full speed don't look at all good. Really surprised that Poite is making these poor decisions.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Right watching both in slow motion there's virtually no mitigation for either. Poite was going for red and was talked down by the TMO. If the first one is red then the second is worse. The TMO will have questions to answer here....... They are straight violent head shots, the mitigation needs to be pretty special for me. Not "his head wasn't exactly where I wanted it to be".........

 

[Rinkadink]

First one was yellow all day, close but followed framework well. Right outcome. ITV talking poop on first as player turned and dipped plus was unsighted. Red but mitigating = yellow.

Second has to be a red, seems they didn't even follow the framework which is ridiculous. Was it because the offender was injured? Was always high unlike the first plus sighted, shows intent?

 

[bushytop]

First one was yellow all day, close but followed framework well. Right outcome. ITV talking poop on first as player turned and dipped plus was unsighted. Red but mitigating = yellow.

Second has to be a red, seems they didn't even follow the framework which is ridiculous. Was it because the offender was injured?

Normally agree with you rink but in this case I'd have gone a Red, Red... no two refs will ever see things the same way though.

Until Google, Amazon or Apple finally create Ref-bot/I-Ref.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

First one was yellow all day, close but followed framework well. Right outcome. ITV talking poop on first as player turned and dipped plus was unsighted. Red but mitigating = yellow.

Second has to be a red, seems they didn't even follow the framework which is ridiculous. Was it because the offender was injured? Was always high unlike the first plus sighted, shows intent?

Agree on second but have to disagree strongly on the first. The framework reads:

"Mitigating factors

(must be clear and obvious and can only be applied to reduce a sanction by 1 level)"

"can" doesn't even mean "must". The degree of danger in that attempt to tackle is massive. The players have a responsibility to manage their tackle (missus) you simply can't go for marginal tackle full throttle and then get bent out of shape if you cop a red card for hitting a player in the head.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Not massively surprising that a ref is going to be overly reliant on the mitigating factors. If you're going to have them we should really have aggravating factors that make them irrelevant such as a high degree of force and no attempt to wrap clearly set out too.

 

[big ginger 8]

Not good to see the stretcher there.

Surely Samoa have someone other than Pisi who can kick?

 

[bushytop]

Not good to see the stretcher there.

Surely Samoa have someone other than Pisi who can kick?

What... Pisi can kick?

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Not massively surprising that a ref is going to be overly reliant on the mitigating factors. If you're going to have them we should really have aggravating factors that make them irrelevant such as a high degree of force and no attempt to wrap clearly set out too.

They do (kind of) it relates to the element of danger rather than mitigation but still.....

VIDEO SIGNS INDICATING HIGHER DEGREE OF DANGER

Preparation

• Tackler draws the arm back prior to contact
• Tackler may leave the ground
• Arm swings forward prior to contact

Contact

• Tackler is attempting an active/dominant tackle, as opposed to passive/soak, or "pulling out" of contact
• Tackler speed and/or acceleration into tackle is high
• Rigid arm or elbow makes contact with BC head as part of a swinging motion

Follow through

• Tackler completes the tackle (as opposed to immediate release/withdrawal)

and also this

Factors to consider against mitigation:

• If the tackler and BC are in open space and/or the tackler has clear line of sight and time before contact

Whilst there is a grey area the example set by Poite here means that Reece Hodge shouldn't be worrying too much. Not even a yellow by today's standards......

 

[bushytop]

Nice DG... there have been a few beauts so far this Cup!

Edit. Oh well!

 

[Rinkadink]

Yeeees

That's more like it.

Change of 9 has been pivotal plus 4 day turn around for Russia?

 

[Reiser99]

Another game where you wonder what might have been under different circumstances.

 

[bushytop]

Another game where you wonder what might have been under different circumstances.

By 'different circumstances' I take it you mean adequate reffing

 

[Reiser99]

By 'different circumstances' I take it you mean adequate reffing

I'm practising be political. I hear the the post of Prime Minister might be up grabs soon.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

They do (kind of) it relates to the element of danger rather than mitigation but still.....

VIDEO SIGNS INDICATING HIGHER DEGREE OF DANGER

Preparation

• Tackler draws the arm back prior to contact
• Tackler may leave the ground
• Arm swings forward prior to contact

Contact

• Tackler is attempting an active/dominant tackle, as opposed to passive/soak, or "pulling out" of contact
• Tackler speed and/or acceleration into tackle is high
• Rigid arm or elbow makes contact with BC head as part of a swinging motion

Follow through

• Tackler completes the tackle (as opposed to immediate release/withdrawal)

and also this

Factors to consider against mitigation:

• If the tackler and BC are in open space and/or the tackler has clear line of sight and time before contact

Whilst there is a grey area the example set by Poite here means that Reece Hodge shouldn't be worrying too much. Not even a yellow by today's standards......

Thanks, I knew they were all considered, didn't know how it was presented but this doesn't change my point. What I mean to address is that when you leave mitigation as the last port of call in the decision making process the decision will be weighted in its favour. If you tell referees that if any of the above are present mitigation needn't be considered rather than always allowing them to consider mitigating factors you'd get less howlers like that 2nd one today.

 

[Rinkadink]

Sly heads up for those involved in the TRF team of tournament, Kushnarev (10) is in running for my choice.

 

[bushytop]

Sly heads up for those involved in the TRF team of tournament, Kushnarev (10) is in running for my choice.

A lot of those Russian boys could do a job in our leagues to be fair.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hard to warm to this Samoan side. Hope Russia run one in here.

Samoa was always my second side, but **** em.

A lot of those Russian boys could do a job in our leagues to be fair.

Ostrikov has been great for Sale for the last 8 years - just moved to France to top up his pension before retirement, but what a lad.

Morozov has looked promising too, last season - needs some refinement and conditioning work but considering he's 24 and was coming from the amateur leagues he's done really well.

Artemiev had a contract at Northampton and from I remember did pretty well but turned down another contract in (Western) Europe because he wanted to move home.

I'm sure Sarries had a Russian fullback a couple of seasons ago - possibly just after the 2011 RWC?

 

[Rinkadink]

Alapatz my man, so pleased for him.

Tough game, Samoa should have been down to 14 for the remainder not sure it would have been enough for Russia to win though given the period of 15 vs 13. Would have been much closer for sure.

Scotland won't be looking forward to the next match although short turn around for Samoa.

*edit*
Top of pool A as well.

 

[die_mole]

God Russia is such a likable team.