South Africa vs France

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by Steve-o, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. Steve-o

    Steve-o Senior Member

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    Good to see Flip van der Merwe being called in to the setup. He probably won't play but will be a motivator for him to keep the good play up. I think dropping Steyn was a good thing. He the best 15 we have but the fact that he signed for 3 years in France should push him down the pecking order significantly. We need to do everything we can to keep our players in SA. The Butch James saga is evidence of the crap that comes with overseas based players.
     
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  3. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Should be a cracking match, will be interesting to see how each team plays, as on their day they're both quality sides, but can suffer from poor form. Tri vs Six nations champions, can't wait

    If my maths serves me correctly, none of the matches on saturday clash (including the only WC match i'm looking forward to: England/USA) so should be a good day of rugby/football
     
  4. veux

    veux Senior Member

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    I hope James plays, one of my favorite players and his aggression on and off the ball really lifts a team (and makes it more entertaining for me lol)
     
  5. rugbywriter

    rugbywriter BANNED!!!

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    A disgrace of a squad. What the hell are guys like Kirchner, Basson, Hargreaves, Rallepelle and Januarie doing there? Hargreaves is one of the worst locks I've ever seen. Isn't his dad involved in SARU or something? Don't get me wrong about Basson, he is one for the future, but that's just the problem. At the moment there are better players then him. No Francois Hougaard, Gerhard van den Heever, Riaan Viljoen, Sarel Pretorious, Peter Grant or Dewald Duvenhage! Shocking selections, as always!

    @ Steve-o: "Good to see Flip van der Merwe being called in to the setup. He probably won't play but will be a motivator for him to keep the good play up. I think dropping Steyn was a good thing. He the best 15 we have but the fact that he signed for 3 years in France should push him down the pecking order significantly. We need to do everything we can to keep our players in SA. The Butch James saga is evidence of the crap that comes with overseas based players. "

    The problem is not keeping our players here, the problem is this stupid over-seas players policy. Rugby is now a professional sport. Players in Europe get paid far more then what players here do. The bottom line is, the standard of living in South Africa is much more difficult then most other countries because of our incomeptant government. We shouldn't expect guys who could be making millions to stay here and deal with the crap we have to deal with. If you can get out of it, consider yourself lucky and go. And even in terms of rugby, why do you find it so important that we keep our players here? Let me ask you this. Which trophy is more important, the Currie Cup, the Super 14 or the World Cup? There is only one answer to that. Why then must the team that plays the World Cup -the most important tournament - suffer and not the teams in the less important competitions? It makes no sense! I think I speak on behalf of a lot of people when I say I'd rather see a decline in the Super14 and Currie Cup in order to see the best international team possible! So the problem is not trying to keep players here, the problem is that there shouldn't be this stupid over-seas players policy!
     
  6. TRF_nickdnz

    TRF_nickdnz Super Moderator

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    I'll answer your question for you.

    Q:Which trophy is more important, the Currie Cup, the Super 14 or the World Cup?
    A:Currie Cup/Super 14(15)

    Reason: Any countires without a firm domestic competition, fail. You take the most talented players from the Currie Cup or Super 14, you then lower the quality of the competition, which means other players remaining in those competitions, perform against lower players. Also, pitting SH players in what is arguably a lower quality competition, means players don't develop into the Richie McCaws or Morne Steyn's. They may become the next Moody's or Flood's, but I'm sure that's not quite what you want.

    Not only does players moving over seas, effect the quality of the domestic competition, but it also effects the number of sales. If the top SA players move to play in Europe, would you watch the second teir players the same amount? That money can be recycled back into getting new great players.

    Finally, should someone be punished not for taking up a lucritive contract from overseas? That's what would happen to any top player who decides to stay home and play rugby. They won't earn the same amount of money, however their loyalty will be unrewarded as players earning 10x what they earn, are getting the same reward (a spot in the Springboks). Yes the RWC is the most prestegious competition in the world, however while taking players from over seas seems like a good quick bulster in the ranks for SA, it will ultimately lead to SA suffering in the long run.
     
  7. rugbywriter

    rugbywriter BANNED!!!

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    That is a giant load of crap. Rugby is now a professional sport. You have to keep up with the times. The bottom line is, Springbok, New Zealand and Australian rugby have suffered because of this over-seas players policy. New Zealand have been without Hayman, Mauger, Kelleher etc. South Africa have lost countless players aswell. There is no way that none of the teams will suffer, it will have to be domestic or international. I would rather see the Springboks win the world cup then see an entertaining Super14, so that's why I feel that the over-seas policy needs to go. Our players should be allowed to play where ever they will earn more money for themselves and their families and not be punished. If you want to be incredibly naive and go with that wholee "representing your country should be enough" then I guess I don't even need to argue with you.
     
  8. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    How much does the average rugby player earn, in Aus/SA/NZ, compared to the average wage? I'm willing to bet it's a chunk more, yes?
    So they get the choice, earn more than the average person and play for their country, or forfeit playing for their country and go elsewhere for more money.
     
  9. rugbywriter

    rugbywriter BANNED!!!

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    They should be able to go elsewhere and get more money and play for their country
     
  10. Jer1cho

    Jer1cho Senior Member

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    South Africa:

    15. Zane Kirchner, 14. Gio Aplon, 13. Jaque Fourie, 12. Wynand Olivier, 11. Bryan Habana, 10. Morné Steyn, 9. Ricky Januarie, 8. Pierre Spies, 7. Francois Louw, 6. Schalk Burger, 5. Victor Matfield, 4. Danie Rossouw, 3. BJ Botha, 2. John Smit (captain), 1. Gurthrö Steenkamp

    Substitutes: 16. Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 Jannie du Plessis, 18. Flip van der Merwe, 19. Dewald Potgieter, 20. Ruan Pienaar, 21. Juan de Jongh, 22. Jean de Villiers

    I'm still wondering why Kirchner is there. Seriously. He comes on against Wales and immediately gives them a try. Then does nothing for the rest of the match. He is so kak. I wanted Aplon at 15, and van den Heever at 14. Why is Gerhard van den Heever not even in the squad? Hopefully he will get a call up for the Tri Nations.

    Also, WTF Ricky Januarie starting ahead of Pienaar at 9? Ok Ricky had an ok-ish game against Wales, but France are a different kettle of fish. Januarie takes too long to get the ball out of the rucks when we need momentum. He stands there waving his hands at everyone.

    Other than that, i am excited. Great forward pack. Definitely the best we could pick if you ask me. Danie Rossouw has really hit form this year. It seems he is like a good wine, maturing with age.

    So, at home, i don't see France beating us with this squad. Unless of course they keep kicking to Kirchner, in which case we are screwed.
     
  11. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Solid team, and a strong bench as well.
    I agree, can't see France beating that side. Will be interesting to see what the France side will be, with Basta out and being replaced by an uncapped player. I imagine a game similar to the Wales game: Close but SA playing better
     
  12. rugbywriter

    rugbywriter BANNED!!!

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    Had to check that I didn't write that! Agree with you 100%!!! Kirchner is so very average, if he was playing for any team other then the Bulls he would not even be looked at twice. As for Januarie starting over Pienaar, I agree that Januarie is not exactly du Preez, but who else? I know Duvenhage, Vermaak and Sarel Pretorious are all better then both Januarie and Pienaar, but you guys should really make peace with the fact that De Villiers is a complete idiot when it comes to selection. I didn't expect Duvenhage, Vermaak or Sarel to make it, even though they very much deserve it. I also expected Kirchner to make it, even though he most deffinitely doesn't deserve it. I also didn't expect Gerhard van den Heever or Francois Hougaard - our top wings of the season - to make it. The Boks will never again have a regular white wing. They know that they have to put X ammount of blacks/colourds in the team, and they know that black guys excel on the wing. So wing will always be used to include some quota players, not that Gio Aplon is a quota player. He is very good, but van den Heever and Francois Hougaard I feel are a lot less mistake-prone, which is what the boks need.

    My 22 for this game would have been (With injuries)
    1. CJ van der Linde
    2. Gary Botha
    3. BJ Botha
    4. Danie Rossouw
    5. Victor Matfield
    6. Schalk Burger
    7. Francois Louw
    8. Pierre Spies
    9. Sarel Pretorious
    10. Morne Steyn
    11. Bryan Habana
    12. Jean de Villiers
    13. Jaques Fourie
    14. Gerhard van den Heever
    15. Frans Steyn
    16. Schalk Brits
    17. John Smit
    18. Flip van der Merwe
    19. Dewaldt Potgieter
    20. Dewald Duvenhage
    21. Butch James
    22. Wynand Olivier
     
  13. Jer1cho

    Jer1cho Senior Member

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    France:

    15. Clement Poitrenaud (Toulouse), 14. Vincent Clerc (Toulouse), 13. David Marty (Perpignan), 12. Maxime Mermoz (Perpignan), 11. Aurelien Rougerie (Clermont), 10. Francois Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), 9. Morgan Parra (Clermont), 8. Julien Bonnaire (Clermont), 7. Wenceslas Lauret (Biarritz), 6. Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse, captain), 5. Romain Millo-Chluski (Toulouse), 4. Lionel Nallet (Racing-Metro), 3. Nicolas Mas (Perpignan), 2. Dimitri Szarzewski (Stade Francais), 1. Thomas Domingo (Clermont)

    Substitutes: 16. Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan), 17. Jean-Baptiste Poux (Toulouse), 18. Julien Pierre (Clermont), 19. Louis Picamoles (Toulouse), 20. Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz), 21. David Skrela (Toulouse), 22. Marc Andreu (Castres)

    Doesnt look too shabby. They are gonna miss Harinordiquay though... Surprised Picamoles is not starting. He tore us apart last year. He is quite a beast.
     
  14. rugbywriter

    rugbywriter BANNED!!!

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    A kick-ass French team. That's gonna be a big scrum and to be honest, Gurthro and Smit are gonna catch a big smack. A lot of pressure on BJ to scrum his heart out. Is Pascal Pape injured? I think that guy is so good in line-outs. Lionel Nallet though looks like he's fast becoming one of the top locks on the planet. Not crazy about that loose trio. Unfortunate about Harinordoquy, and to be honest I don't think Dusatouir would make the Bok team, but he's okay. Bonnaire is a decent jumper but that's about where it ends. Parra and Trinh-Duc have become on of the most dangerous halfback combos in rugby. Januarie is going to get schooled. One of the weaker French backlines I've ever seen, but when Poitrenaud and Kirchner do kicking battles, Kirchner is going to get his ass kicked.

    Have to be honest, I think the French might just come away with this one.
     
  15. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Certainly is a strong side, looking forward to this match a lot
    After my inevitable depression after the Australia/England match, a good game of rugby will be needed to cheer me up :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  16. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike BANNED!!!

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    Picamoles is the toughest player I have ever seen, heaps of players were trying to tackle him in that Boks vs France game, he just kept bouncing them off, he is quite average sized for a forward aswell.

    Bonnaire is an extremely talented player, Harinordiquay will be missed, but France have excellent depth in the loose forwards.
     
  17. Jer1cho

    Jer1cho Senior Member

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    I'm really impressed by your knowledge regarding foreign teams dude. Thumbs up!
     
  18. Feicarsinn

    Feicarsinn Super Αdmin

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    That French front row is monster, it could be a very long day at the office for the South African scrum. In fact, the entire French pack is pretty mighty, the battle up front is going to be very tasty. Experianced backline although I would have liked to see Marc Andreu start. If the game decends into a kicking contest South Africa will come out on top, Poitrenaud must be the least reliable fullback in international rugby at the moment.
     
  19. Charles

    Charles Senior Member

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    Good post Jericho. I have to say I am not overly impressed by this SA team. The absence of FDP will be massive in the outcome of this game. On the french side big game players are missing as well, almost all the leaders of the Grand Slam: Servat, Harinordoquy, Chabal, Jauzion, and also Bastareaud and David who are always useful to bash it up the middle. I'm worried we'll miss penetration without those guys. I expect us to dominate in the scrums though and our bench is slightly better I feel.

    Edit: I've just seen the starting XV. Lauret starting, Lievremont is opting for a running/defensive backrow rather than taking the Boks upfront. Makes sense with the centre pairing which is much more mobile and quick than Jauzion-Basta/David.
    Picamoles as the enforcer for the last 30...
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  20. rugbywriter

    rugbywriter BANNED!!!

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    Huh? Dude he's like one of the best, what are you on about?
     
  21. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike BANNED!!!

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    I would have liked to see, 6. Dusautoir 7. Bonnaire 8. Picamoles, but ahwell.
     
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