South Africa vs Ireland - 3 Tests - June 2016

[BakkiesBokke]

I'm glad to see Ireland are visiting. In order to broaden our selector base, I wonder whether it is worth organising a test or two in early August, before the start of the RC? If we were to play a Tier 2 team, we could use the opportunity to play a second string? Given that all three RC opponents are now tough, there is little opportunity to be adventurous selection-wise, and this is compounded by the fact that our coach is very conservative.

Such a fixture would be useful in the run up to the RC in my view. The Currie Cup would be down a few players for a few extra weeks of course.

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

Whats the deal with the quotas? is that crazy government still demanding more blacks in the team?

Nah, it's an excuse.....

At least the crazy Govt didn't differentiate between neutral refs and colour?

We've never lost to Ireland, Scotland, Argentina least of all Japan and now all of a sudden our friends from Saffa land think they deserve the RWC?

sERIOUSELY, too arrogant. Just say thanks man. Great game

 

[bazwaz]

@TRF_stormer2010.... just looking at yr Bok picks against Ireland - am also a fan of Ulengo and was wondering why he hasn't been named in the Sevens squad for Rio?....however Habana has... at Ulengo's expense?...would be awesome to see him in a Bok jersey but I guess that's dependant on his Super Rugby form this year...

Saw Ulengo get a hattrick against the Stormers but in other games the Bulls were often starving the fringes of ball...frustrating to watch...
In NZ wingers like Savea, Nadolo , Naholo, Osborne for example go looking for work and spend a lot of time in the centres - that license to roam making NZ teams more dangerous / effective in the centres I feel and brings a whole new dimension to the attack...not sure whether SA players are permitted to play out of position like that though..

 

[TRF_heineken]

@TRF_stormer2010.... just looking at yr Bok picks against Ireland - am also a fan of Ulengo and was wondering why he hasn't been named in the Sevens squad for Rio?....however Habana has... at Ulengo's expense?...would be awesome to see him in a Bok jersey but I guess that's dependant on his Super Rugby form this year...

Saw Ulengo get a hattrick against the Stormers but in other games the Bulls were often starving the fringes of ball...frustrating to watch...
In NZ wingers like Savea, Nadolo , Naholo, Osborne for example go looking for work and spend a lot of time in the centres - that license to roam making NZ teams more dangerous / effective in the centres I feel and brings a whole new dimension to the attack...not sure whether SA players are permitted to play out of position like that though..

I can answer that question for you.

Ulengo has made the switch to 15-man rugby from 7's. He said that he wanted to focus on being a regular for the Bulls at Super Rugby level at the expense of playing 7's. I think the Contract that he recently signed also has a clause that prevents him from playing 7's during the Super Rugby season.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It actually makes me happy that Ulengo is focussing on 7s and I think for his long term career its a smart move as he'll be playing at wing in Super Rugby in a time where we are looking for fresh blood (Habana, JPP and Mvovo all 29+) and many alternative options will be on 7's duty (Senatla, Hendricks etc). I hope he can make the step up. Someone just has to as wing and fullback are my major concerns for the Bokke moving forward.

On the way we approach the game at the moment (the Bokke and bigger SA unions) its very frustrating to watch for SA fasn as well. I'm not sure when and why this unwillingness to have a go out wide crept in but 'low risk' rugby seems now firmly established. I get the feeling our contemporary coaches are trying to do too much off the pitch and forgetting that the game is played by the XV men on the field. Just my personal feeling as a fan looking in from the outside. If you have a look at the way we played test rugby pre ~2005 and the way our Varsity and age grade teams play (other than the overcoached junior Bokke) we do back our pace out wide. The other factor is we have pure blistering pace but lack power in the wings. Its not like we lack powerful runners but we just aren't getting those guys through to play wing in pro teams; they either stop playing (like myself) or go play center/flank/lock (Etzebeth, JdV etc) and develop different skills early on in high school.

 

[Durbanite]

I hate the bokke in white, atleast the Irish won't play in similar kit like ArgvSA in BA last year, was so annoying trying to distinguish between the two teams.

Really?? I think Lambie is a bit overrated...

I agree, he is overrated, but I think the bok selectors and HM have much fault in the matter tbh. Lambie has lost so much game time these last few years, his career has effectivly been stunted. He barely plays SR before being called up to the bok squad and sits around for the year. I'd rather they leave him alone to play some damn rugby. It's quite criminal considering in the Plumtree years he became a tactical, game running, vital no10 so the Sharks have suffered because of his absence, and have never quite made it work with other 10s. HM needs to find another bench monkey

 

[LiRFCMatt]

No offence, but what else does he have to focus on for the next 12 months??

Agreed, kinda like saying our focus is every single match for the next year. I think maybe it will be in contrast to other teams who are looking to bring in a lot of new players and get a squad together ASAP that will be playing by 2019.

 

[saulan]

South Africa vs Ireland- 3 test series in June

Wanted to get the conversation started on this since I saw an article related to it.

Apparently Stander believes that we have already written off Ireland based on their six nations performance:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/stander-boks-have-written-us-off-20160322

The thing is though, maybe his family/friends are giving him some banter that we have written them off, but that definitely isn't the case... because we are in absolute shambles at the moment and I don't even think we are looking as far as June yet. Right now we have no coach, a union that is in a liquidation process and being run by SARU, improper use of funds allegations against the SARU CEO, all our front runners for flyhalf injured and no prep work for the season ahead being done because of the lack of a coach. Also our likely coach is Allistair Coetzee so that's not looking to positive either.

It will be a very interesting series.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

"It will be a very interesting series."

Haha. I love the understatement.

You forgot to mention the racial quotas. We have no idea how much of an effect that might have on selections yet. TBF it shouldn't count overly much against us. I mean looking at specific instances I rate Kitshoff over Nyakane but Nyakane won't let us down, I rate Combrinck as our #1 winger but he won't get a look in being white in a position where there is a lot of black talent. It would just not be PC. We don't have black options at lock or realistically in other front row or backrow positions so we need those backs slots but who do we have and who do we drop or deny? Its gonna be interesting to say the least!

Ireland might not have had a hot 6N but at least they have something to build on.

What I'd like to see starting XV-wise (assuming Pollard and Jantjies is out of the running?);

1 Kitshoff
2 Du Plessis
3 Malherbe
4 Etzebeth
5 Du Toit
6 Coetzee
7 Whiteley
8 Vermeulen

9 De Klerk
10 Lambie (?)

11 Combrinck
12 De Allende
13 Kriel
14 Gelant
15 Le Roux

I would cry if I see Habana, Burger, De Jongh, or Jannie du Plessis' names there. Some others as well but I don't see them as options (hopefully).

 

[TRF_heineken]

If it wasn't for CJ Stander, Ireland would have been off worse in the 6 Nations.

Does that mean we are writing them off?? I don't think so, but we can certainly go into the series with confidence. It seems like the opposition has figured out all of Schmidt's moves and tricks, and his team weren't performing.

But a lot can change between now and June. Hell we might even have a new president by that time.

And we don't know what's going to happen with the Bok coach and his appointment, and if Mr. Hoskins will even keep his seat at the head of SARU in the coming weeks.

It seems like the Unions and SARU (Jurie Roux) are working together (finally), and that there is a clear vision for the Springbok's future. All I can say is that prior to this year's Super Rugby kicked off, I wasn't very optimistic about SA Rugby, but just from what I've seen so far, there is a definite move in the right direction.

Hell, even the Kings are surprizing me with glimpses of brilliance. (Btw, I think Edgar Marutlule is their stand-out performer).

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

LOL, heineken, I like the optimism. I'm going to stick around and see if it catches.

 

[TRF_heineken]

LOL, heineken, I like the optimism. I'm going to stick around and see if it catches.

I am optimistic. Maybe because I didn't think there is a snowball's chance in hell that the Bulls will be able to draw against the Sharks, or that the Stormers will beat the Brumbies by more than 2 points (Superbru moer toe!!).

But let's look at what is currently going on in SA.

We have municipal elections most probably in May. The ANC is under so much pressure thanx to Zupta and his failing Cabinet.

Oregon Hoskins has lost his support from the unions due to his spinelessness and lack of transparency with the state of SA Rugby, while Roux, who is under a massive dark cloud, still seems to work hard, perform, and even show a massive profit for SA Rugby in the last fiscal year.

With Cheeky Watson also on the chopping block (finally), it seems like SARU's involvement is doing more good than harm in the embattled province where the Friendly City is situated.

If Hoskins and/or Fikile Mbalula loses their seats of power, there is a possibility that the talks of transformation might deviate or change with regards to National teams. We might actually get to a point where players are actually picked on merit...

With that said though, I think a lot of the ethnic black players have put their hands up so far.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

What's the situation regarding your 10's? I think I'm right in saying Pollard's out, is there a drop off after him?

I'm very optimistic for getting at least our first win in South Africa. We'll have a much stronger pack with Henderson and O'Mahoney back in the fray, a defensive pattern given to us by an actual defensive coach and not what Schmidt can conjure up in his spare time and hopefully a more dangerous centre pairing, read Henshaw with Ringrose or McCloskey, because of it.

If I was allowed to pick the side for the 1st test (assuming these guys will be fit at the time) I'd want this

15. Kearney
14. Fitzgerald
13. Henshaw
12. McCloskey
11. Earls
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Heaslip
7. O'Brien
6. O'Mahoney
5. Henderson
4. Toner
3. Ross
2. Best
1. McGrath

16. Strauss
17. Healy
18. Moore
19. Dillane
20. Stander
21. McGrath
22. Jackson
23. Zebo

A strong pack which covers the set pieces very well and a backline that could wreak havoc. The bench isn't half bad either! Far stronger altogether than what we were fielding in the 6 nations!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Watson gone is a huge bonus for EP rugby I agree, so too Hoskins and I am hoping Mbalula. But who will replace them? We have no garuantee their replacement will be better. Roux for instance looks for all money (LOL) to be guilty of effectively stealing from Stellenbosch uni while Coetzee leaving has been a breath of fresh air for the Stormers. Do we really want those two in the top positions of our rugby?

I' hoping that the transformation quota will somehow fall by the wayside ad that it is/was only political grandtsanding in an election year. I am all for transformation in sport but not quite so forced and putting down an arbitrary number. SA needs good wingers with Habana and JPP past their best. A guy like Combrinck is in great form. It'd just be a pity if we lose out on him simply because of his lack of melanin.

Between a seemingly revitalized Le Roux, Gelant and then Kolbe and Kriel we actually have exciting options at 15 for a change, De Allende, Kriel, Serfontein have serious competition for their spots from Venter, Mapoe and Odendaal so our center options are huge as well. Injury aside we have young exciting options at 10 as well. Post 2015 RWC I see De Klerk and Reinach rightfully taking their green jerseys and in the forwards we have depth and class throughout we just need to find our longterm replacements at hooker but the guys do look like stepping up (Marx, Marutlule, Mbonambi being my favorite options in that order).

- - - Updated - - -

What's the situation regarding your 10's? I think I'm right in saying Pollard's out, is there a drop off after him?

We have 3 young and capable 10s in Pollard, Lambie and Jantjies all of whom I'd call as being on par or near enough. Pollard might have a higher ceiling but the other two are possibly more mature in their play. All 3 are out for the season though Lambie could potentially make it in time for the June series.

Beyond them its either going back to one of Steyn, Pienaar or Goosen or promoting a rookie or journeyman. I actually wouldn't mind seeing our Euro boys back in green everything considered. I don't see the point of bringing in new blood when we do have Pollard, Lambie and Jantjies (apart from their being injured now).

That looks like a very settled Ireland side with depth too boot. I'll back SA as favorites at home against anyone but certainly we are in for a treat! Huge question marks hanging over SA rugby ATM though but the player talent is there and right across the park for once but for injury.

 

[dunney77]

1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Henderson
5. Toner
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Stander
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. McCloskey
13. Henshaw
14. Fitzgerald
15. Payne

[FONT=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I think that team would challenge SA.

It's crucial that Henshaw moves to 13[/FONT]

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So no real injuries for Ireland if I look at those potential line-ups?

For SA it seems at least that Elton Jantjies' injury is less severe than first epected and he now has an ETA of 1st of April. If Lambie could be fit as well we should be fine though Lambie will be coming in cold if he even makes it so should probably fill the bench spot.

De Allende should be back by then. I guess that's it for the SA based guys. We are fine for injuries ATM apart from at 10/12. I have no idea how some of our overseasbased guys are. I saw Bismarck help put Racing away for Montpellier but that's about it. June is a ways off but it'll be here before we know it.

 

[profitius]

So no real injuries for Ireland if I look at those potential line-ups?

There'll be injuries alright. Still a long way to go till the end of the season so I'd expect injuries for both sides.


O'Mahony and Henderson are out long term and have not come back yet. So theres question marks over them. Sean O'Brien, Healy and Marty Moore are permanently injured. They need to take a sabbatical.

 

[Amiga500]

If I was allowed to pick the side for the 1st test (assuming these guys will be fit at the time) I'd want this

15. Kearney

2009 called, they are looking their 15 back.

[He shouldn't be near the squad, never mind the team.]

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Kearney was still our best 15 this 6 nations when he played, Zebo made too many defensive blunders. Until Olding is ready, which he's not Kearney is our man.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

what about Ringrose? is he ready to be blooded yet?