South Africa vs Ireland - 3 Tests - June 2016

[Peat]

He's going to have an ever tougher time if the rumour about Sexton being out is true.

 

[Ludders93]

Is Sexton out?
Where did this rumour come from/how reliable is it?

If it's true I need to get on betting on SA winning the series 3-0 asap! Sexton being out basically confirms that

 

[Groundhog]

Just a rumour, but rumours of that nature are usually pretty accurate in my opinion. Word travels fast.
EDIT: Rob and Dave are expected to miss the tour with O'Halloran (already in camp) and Gilroy to replace them. Arguably the selection a lot of people wanted in the first place but injuries ain't no happy occurrence. Sexton injured his shoulder in the final so the gravity of that isn't known yet I suppose.
Word is now he's had surgery on the shoulder on Tuesday which doesn't sound good but I'm actually a bit excited to see what Jackson can do given the reins of this team. Ultimately he isn't at Sexton's level yet, but it will be a huge oppurtunity for him. Also heard Zebo bigged up as a possible incoming injury cover.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Sexton out and the Kearney's likely to follow... It'll be one of Ireland's greatest achievements to get a win now considering the game plan will have to be altered to suit Jackson at 10 and Payne or Olding at 15, and PJ needs to put the cherry on top of a coming of age season. If the Kearney's are gone I'd want to see TO'H, Niyi Adeolokun, Craig Gilroy and Ian Madigan in as replacements... That looks like the start to an Irish 7's team.

Id like to see this team now, brackets is where I think Joe and I will differ.
1. McGarth
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Henderson
5. Dillane (Toner)
6. Stander
7. Murphy
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Jackson
11. Earls
12. Olding (Payne to 13)
13. Henshaw
14. Adeolokun (Trimble)
15. Payne (Olding)

16. Cronin
17. Kilcoyne
18. Bealham
19. Toner (Dillane)
20. Ruddock
21. Marmion
22. Madigan
23. O'Halloran (Gilroy)

Lets see if the anti-Schmidt brigade are happy losing with young players after the last 6 months of BS... Somehow I doubt they will be.

 

[munstermuffin]

Zebo is back running but I'd be weary of bringing him. Injuries aren't nice but 2 Kearneys dont deserve to go. Sexton is huge loss though and well our RWC ranking will be in jeopardy now.

 

[Groundhog]

A second row of Hendo and Dillane would be pure cyyyyyarnage. I think Schmidt should alter his gameplan to thoroughly confuse the South Africans. That's right, we should round up a few ex cons and play stampkar rugby.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Zebo is back running but I'd be weary of bringing him. Injuries aren't nice but 2 Kearneys dont deserve to go. Sexton is huge loss though and well our RWC ranking will be in jeopardy now.

Yes they did... Both were in the top 2/4 in their position this season at all levels played and better options than both Trimble and Olding who are in the squad. Rob Kearney especially, having regained fitness he didn't have on Saturday, is a huge loss. The work that guy does without the ball is absolutely incredible when on song and exactly what's needed in South Africa.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yes they did... Both were in the top 2/4 in their position this season at all levels played and better options than both Trimble and Olding who are in the squad. Rob Kearney especially, having regained fitness he didn't have on Saturday, is a huge loss. The work that guy does without the ball is absolutely incredible when on song and exactly what's needed in South Africa.

In your opinion but most would have TOH and Payne ahead of Kearney by a major anount.
I'd have Healy, Niyi, Earls, Luke Fitz and Gilroy ahead of Dave. Trimble is a better player too. As I say you may rate them that high but majority of people and press don't. Rob offers very little these day in attack. And apart from aerial ability has declined so again you may say he's vital without ball but majority would disagree and gis defense may be seen as weakness. You say lets see if anto Schmidt people are happy loosing but facts are the guys being touted are touted on form. And deserve their shot. The trusted guys have failed Ireland in ways since Arg game which they acknowledge themselves. Some guys may suit Schmidt style vut Schmidt himself realises his plan is gone slightly stale and he needs to revamp a bit.

 

[munstermuffin]

A second row of Hendo and Dillane would be pure cyyyyyarnage. I think Schmidt should alter his gameplan to thoroughly confuse the South Africans. That's right, we should round up a few ex cons and play stampkar rugby.

Should be some physical battle in this area

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Zebo is back running but I'd be weary of bringing him. Injuries aren't nice but 2 Kearneys dont deserve to go. Sexton is huge loss though and well our RWC ranking will be in jeopardy now.

With SA at home the assumed 3 points home advantage used in the rankings calculations on top of the ~7 points we're ahead on the official rankings means we cannot take points off of you, we can only lose rankings points so the only way you are dropping is if those below Ireland move up. Only France are in close enough range of doing that with the opportunity in hand against Argentina at home (who are ~4 points ahead and efffectively ~7 points with home advantage so one 15+ win or two smaller ones will see France leap Ireland.. but also will see Argentina drop below you because the difference from France to Ireland to Argentina is close enought o equal and the rankings function on a points exchange system so I see now you aren't going to drop, you can only climb at SA's expense).

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

In your opinion but most would have TOH and Payne ahead of Kearney by a major anount.
I'd have Healy, Niyi, Earls, Luke Fitz and Gilroy ahead of Dave. Trimble is a better player too. As I say you may rate them that high but majority of people and press don't. Rob offers very little these day in attack. And apart from aerial ability has declined so again you may say he's vital without ball but majority would disagree and gis defense may be seen as weakness. You say lets see if anto Schmidt people are happy loosing but facts are the guys being touted are touted on form. And deserve their shot. The trusted guys have failed Ireland in ways since Arg game which they acknowledge themselves. Some guys may suit Schmidt style vut Schmidt himself realises his plan is gone slightly stale and he needs to revamp a bit.

Payne is used as a centre, at 33 there's no point using him as a fullback, he's a stopgap at 13 until he can be replaced. Fitz is injured and DK is a better player than Healy, the Healy hype is ridiculous by the way, he can tear open weak pro 12 defences but he almost single handedly lost what was touted his best game of the season for Connacht against Grenoble, he's made awful defensive blinders before and since and is completely protected by Niyi and TO'H who aren't exactly pillars in defence but are much improved. Kearney had Gilroy on toast for 70mins two weeks ago as well.

Some guys deserve their spot but there are passengers who are made look a lot better than they are by those around them who are being touted to a ridiculous extent.

Schmidt's in the process of revamping his gameplan, we'll see a lot more in the next month too now that he need not focus on the defence as well which was probably the biggest issue he had in the 6 nations.

 

[Amiga500]

It seems Ireland's best selector has got involved. Certain the most progressive selector anyway.

While they may not win in SA, it'd still probably be with better performances and results than what would have been the case.

 

[munstermuffin]

Payne is used as a centre, at 33 there's no point using him as a fullback, he's a stopgap at 13 until he can be replaced. Fitz is injured and DK is a better player than Healy, the Healy hype is ridiculous by the way, he can tear open weak pro 12 defences but he almost single handedly lost what was touted his best game of the season for Connacht against Grenoble, he's made awful defensive blinders before and since and is completely protected by Niyi and TO'H who aren't exactly pillars in defence but are much improved. Kearney had Gilroy on toast for 70mins two weeks ago as well.

Some guys deserve their spot but there are passengers who are made look a lot better than they are by those around them who are being touted to a ridiculous extent.

Schmidt's in the process of revamping his gameplan, we'll see a lot more in the next month too now that he need not focus on the defence as well which was probably the biggest issue he had in the 6 nations.

Again I'd disagree with start. As I said you rate Dave as an international wing but majority don't. It's just simply a difference of opinion. I think he has an appalling strike rate and while he offers work rate I don't think it's enough to earn hos spot. You disagree and thats faair enough. On Healy yes his defense is suspect but we don't exactly have great defensive wings. Kearneys are poor Earls is suspect. Zebo isn't top notch. But Gilroy Earls Healy Niyi are all finishers. You mention tearing up poor Peo12 defenses but Dave K isn't putting them away and has lost matches too. Argentina he was awful defensively. Point being 1 match cant define a player

 

[Groundhog]

Sexton and Kearndashians are officially don diddity down. Madigan, O'Halloran, Healy and Gilroy called up all as I prodicted. I am truly omnipotent and wise. Hail me.
Truly believe Gilroy is the business for us. Such a graceful player. O'Halloran is solid and has been a favourite player of mine for years now. Must be said he had a bad day under the high ball in the finals at least in the first half though. My criticisms of Healy are heavily publicised on this forum but he's still a joy to watch so I don't really mind. I do believe this level is beyond his short ass, but at the very least he gets on the end of a **** tonne of grubber kicks. Madigan was our only choice. Seen people calling for Steenson to be called up. Tell rudeboy shut up.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Again I'd disagree with start. As I said you rate Dave as an international wing but majority don't. It's just simply a difference of opinion. I think he has an appalling strike rate and while he offers work rate I don't think it's enough to earn hos spot. You disagree and thats faair enough. On Healy yes his defense is suspect but we don't exactly have great defensive wings. Kearneys are poor Earls is suspect. Zebo isn't top notch. But Gilroy Earls Healy Niyi are all finishers. You mention tearing up poor Peo12 defenses but Dave K isn't putting them away and has lost matches too. Argentina he was awful defensively. Point being 1 match cant define a player

Strike rate is so irrelevant to the argument though. Dave Kearney has won Heineken Cups, Pro 12's, Challenge cups and a 6 nations, by points diff, in a team where the wings don't score that many tries. Schmidt uses his wings differently and it's successful and tactically DK is better than anyone currently in the squad. We lose a lot of balance in that squad without the Kearney's, especially with Sexton out which means a distributor at 12, something we don't really have, is almost essential.

Anyway, it's irrelevant now, happy enough with the call ups, would have liked Niyi over Healy but the left foot was always going to stand to Healy.

 

[Peat]

Steenson is a flat out better fly-half though.

I can't be arsed to have round 25 of the Irish wing argument but one that is for sure, is that Jackson is capable of getting a team running forwards as smoothly as Sexton, but you won't see him kick the corners or put up high bombs as well. Either he improves very quickly on this score, or Ireland are forced to put it through the hands. And I think that very much changes who should be in the team, even if it adds a few risks.

Also, I'm not sure Schmidt trusts Henshaw at 13 defensively, and reckon we might see 12. Henshaw 13. Marshall


edit: And Earls/Trimble were always going to get most of the game time, so what change anyway?

 

[saulan]

Interesting article:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/irish-pull-outs-devalue-sa-tour-20160603

It is an awful shame to be deprived, especially, of seeing Johnny Sexton (64 Test caps, including three for British and Irish Lions), Rob Kearney (72, including three for Lions), Tommy Bowe (72, five for Lions), Sean O'Brien (44, two for Lions), Luke Fitzgerald (35, one for Lions) and other stalwarts like Simon Zebo, Peter O'Mahony and Cian Healy.

Seems there may be worries that this Irish team isn't going to motivate people to go watch the matches at the stadium. Also concern that a injury weakened Irish squad has put AC in a lose lose situation. If he loses a match they have done terribly, if they win marginally its unacceptable and if they win comfortably it was expected.

 

[munstermuffin]

Strong rumours Henshaw will play 15

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Strong rumours Henshaw will play 15

This was the perfect opportunity to bring in McCloskey and put Payne 15. Wasted opportunity to rejuvenate the Ireland team wasted IMO

 

[profitius]

Interesting article:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/irish-pull-outs-devalue-sa-tour-20160603


Seems there may be worries that this Irish team isn't going to motivate people to go watch the matches at the stadium. Also concern that a injury weakened Irish squad has put AC in a lose lose situation. If he loses a match they have done terribly, if they win marginally its unacceptable and if they win comfortably it was expected.

Probably might demotivate people to go to the first match but Ireland can still put out a team that will be competitive and get bums on seats for the other matches. Scrum and lineout should be solid enough. Farrell is the new defence coach so I'm looking forward to seeing what he brings. Plenty of dangerous backs in there too.


The problem with Ireland and why everyone is so negative is because Schmidt insists on the kick chase game. The type of rugby that was popular before the ELVs.


Team I'd like to see.

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Bealham
4 Ryan
5 Toner
6 Henderson
7 Murphy
8 Heaslip

9 Murray
10 Jackson
11 Earls
12 Henshaw
13 Marshall
14 Trimble
15 Payne

16 Cronin
17 Kilcoyne
18 Furlong
19 Dillane
20 Stander
21 Marmion
22 Olding
23 O'Halloran or Healy


Theres a lot of impact off that bench! I doubt he'll pick that team though.


Others.
Sean Reidy (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht)*
Rhys Ruddock (St Marys/Leinster)
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
Craig Gilroy (Ulster)
Ian Madigan (Leinster)
Healy or O'Halloran (both Connacht)

- - - Updated - - -

Strong rumours Henshaw will play 15

Whoever plays there it'll be a big improvement on Rob kearney. If he has to choose between Payne and Henshaw it'll be Henshaw because Henshaw is more solid under the high ball and he loves Payne at 13.