Spring Tour: South Africa - England - 1st Test (09/06/2012, 16:00 GMT)

[mstar]

we and i have said it so many times on here, Tuilagi lets his heart rule to much of his head, he wants to bash through people when the pass is the best thing to do. SO many times (we saw it in the 6N) if he passed we could of made serious ground with our backs.


I thought Johnsons energy level was great in the 1st half maybe the wave after wave physical tackling he had to do sapped his energy in the 2nd half.


Robshaw again Mr "i will always have the dirtest england shirt" award again. Sesiously Robshaw is involved in all the action and really gives his all he didn't shy from the tackles at all. He made the most tackles


Botha love him or hate him his workrate is good he made good tackles one of the highest as well. Same with parling


Youngs as we said before can f** off now, he is starting to bug me now. He to me is carrying some weight and fitness level as he goes on the game isn't like it was 12 months ago. Bring in Dickson "i stand by the scrum thinking about what to make for dinner" or Care.


Farrell i think lacks the experience a little to change game tactically and i think Flood be better bet.


Shame about Morgan but its the same with him he just can't last a whole game.


What do people think to bring in Haskell in at 8 or in place of Johnson? to give us that little bit of physical presence and experience?


I have to disagree people saying we can't handle the physical challenge its more HANDLING IT FOR the full 80 mins. Lot of the players are not used to it so fitness and strength is needed for the full 80 mins.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Morgan will be fine he just needs to get match-fit again. I'm sure it must be a coincidence but how come so many players from welsh pro 12 teams look off the pace?
In my opinion however you really need a no. 8 who can play 80 minutes if needed to. This is because you need a back-row sub who can fit in at 6 or 7 where fatigue setting in can have bigger consequences (I would argue). Dowson coming on at 8 just felt like a waste because he's hardly an impact player. Just felt like a wasted sub. If we just wanted a replacement 8 we could have just gone for Waldrom. We desperately need Haskell in, but when he does come in it should be for Dowson I think.

 

[Peat]

Though I'm certainly no expert on English rugby, I wouldn't be a fan of putting Tuilagi on the wing either. How much experience has he got on the wing? His pace wouldn't be a concern for me, but his 'non-running basics' would be a major concern: Is he familiar with the defensive responsibilities of a wing? Is he strong under the high ball? Does he have a kicking game? South Africa are experts are targeting opposition wingers with their kicking game - any inexperience/weakness in opposition wingers will usually be exploited. Though I can certainly see the attraction of having Tuilagi on the wing, I think a test match versus South Africa is the last place you would want to experiment!

He played wing breaking through, but not since then - I don't know how much he knew, how much he's remembered.

The pace does have to be a concern. I remember him getting overhauled by Geordan Murphy on a length of the field chase - ok, he got most of the field, but Murphy started on the turn from an angle and is not the quickest anymore. To contrast, Craig Gilroy - who I've seen doubts about whether he's truly as fast as a wing should be - burnt Murphy when he received the ball standing still with Murphy already accelerating very close behind him.

So what happens if Steyn puts in one behind Tuilagi for a foot race between him and Pietersen/Habana? Or we've been defending narrow and the SA wings have the space to just go straight past him? I would worry in that situation. Maybe I'm misjudging him, but at the very least I'd want to see how Tuilagi coped with defending that situation from a very fast player in training.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RGt8NQzLJ4&feature=youtu.be - Remind anyone of a certain other who also goes by the name of Tuilagi and happens to play on the wing?

 

[Peat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RGt8NQzLJ4&feature=youtu.be - Remind anyone of a certain other who also goes by the name of Tuilagi and happens to play on the wing?

No, his brother would have never stepped the first tackler!

 

[Darwin]

He played wing breaking through, but not since then - I don't know how much he knew, how much he's remembered.

The pace does have to be a concern. I remember him getting overhauled by Geordan Murphy on a length of the field chase - ok, he got most of the field, but Murphy started on the turn from an angle and is not the quickest anymore. To contrast, Craig Gilroy - who I've seen doubts about whether he's truly as fast as a wing should be - burnt Murphy when he received the ball standing still with Murphy already accelerating very close behind him.

So what happens if Steyn puts in one behind Tuilagi for a foot race between him and Pietersen/Habana? Or we've been defending narrow and the SA wings have the space to just go straight past him? I would worry in that situation. Maybe I'm misjudging him, but at the very least I'd want to see how Tuilagi coped with defending that situation from a very fast player in training.

Perhaps I should have said: 'his pace is not the main concern for me'. Though it could be exposed, I would be far more worried about his positional play / ability under the high ball than his pace. A really intelligent player with strong positional play can make up in many ways for a lack of pace - for example neither of NZ's wings at the RWC (Jane and Kahui) were overly quick, but I can't remember them once being exposed for a lack of pace. If a 'slower' wing knows how to defend they should never give a faster wing an outside break, and should never be put into a situation where they have a 1-on-1 foot race with a fast wing chasing a kick (though that very much has to do with team defense patterns, rather than the individual). What I'm trying (perhaps unsuccessfully..) to suggest is that lack of pace in itself isn't necessarily a massive issue for a wing, though when you combine it with inexperience playing on the wing I agree it can be a major issue (so yes, it probably is a major concern if Tuilagi is on the wing)!

 

[racingmetrofan]

Allen at 13 instead of 12 but apart from that good selection. Will be interesting to see how competitive these SA midweek sides are.

 

[SomeOke]

Allen at 13 instead of 12 but apart from that good selection. Will be interesting to see how competitive these SA midweek sides are.

Not even remotely. I don't even recognise the vast majority of them and I at least know all the Super rugby players. Which means no-one from the top 5 sides more or less (unless I'm mis-informed).

 

[Gena_ZA]

The Barbarian side is blokes that do not compete at Super 15 level. Superrugby -> Currie Cup -> Vodacom cup
Compared to footie this will be the 3rd league, they gonna be as tough as nails, but that is about it
They are further broken down in a north and south side for these midweek games

SA Barbarians (South):

15-Jacquin Jansen (Boland); 14-Cornal Hendricks (Boland), 13-Kempie Rautenbach (SWD), 12-Wayne Stevens (EP Kings, captain), 11-Norman Nelson (EP Kings); 10-Elgar Watts (Boland), 9-Boela Abrahams (EP Kings), 8-Jacques Engelbrecht (EP Kings), 7-Shaun Raubenheimer (SWD), 6-Mpho Mbiyozo (EP Kings), 5-David Bulbring (EP Kings), 4-Nolan Clark (Boland), 3-Ross Geldenhuys (Boland), 2-Hannes Franklin (EP Kings), 1-Corne Fourie (Pumas).

Substitutes: 16-Clemen Lewis (Boland), 17-Dean Hopp (SWD), 18-Samora Fihlani (Border), 19-Zandre Jordaan (Boland), 20-Ntando Kebe (Border), 21-Ricardo Croy (Boland), 22-Ntabeni Dukisa (Border).

 

[peanuts40]

What a terrible, terrible team.....

Why couldn't the play a SA super rugby team?

Or at least the South Africa Schools/Students team which may not force a better result, but would be a lot more interesting.

 

[TRF_heineken]

What a terrible, terrible team.....

Why couldn't the play a SA super rugby team?

Or at least the South Africa Schools/Students team which may not force a better result, but would be a lot more interesting.

Or the Emerging Springboks!!??

 

[cyRil]

The Barbarian side is blokes that do not compete at Super 15 level. Superrugby -> Currie Cup -> Vodacom cup
Compared to footie this will be the 3rd league, they gonna be as tough as nails, but that is about it
They are further broken down in a north and south side for these midweek games

SA Barbarians (South):

15-Jacquin Jansen (Boland); 14-Cornal Hendricks (Boland), 13-Kempie Rautenbach (SWD), 12-Wayne Stevens (EP Kings, captain), 11-Norman Nelson (EP Kings); 10-Elgar Watts (Boland), 9-Boela Abrahams (EP Kings), 8-Jacques Engelbrecht (EP Kings), 7-Shaun Raubenheimer (SWD), 6-Mpho Mbiyozo (EP Kings), 5-David Bulbring (EP Kings), 4-Nolan Clark (Boland), 3-Ross Geldenhuys (Boland), 2-Hannes Franklin (EP Kings), 1-Corne Fourie (Pumas).

Substitutes: 16-Clemen Lewis (Boland), 17-Dean Hopp (SWD), 18-Samora Fihlani (Border), 19-Zandre Jordaan (Boland), 20-Ntando Kebe (Border), 21-Ricardo Croy (Boland), 22-Ntabeni Dukisa (Border).

Who the hell are any of those players? Is it going to be like the first team the Lions played in 2009? A load of hanging ******** who aren't that great but are gonna smash the **** out of the opposition?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Who the hell are any of those players? Is it going to be like the first team the Lions played in 2009? A load of hanging ******** who aren't that great but are gonna smash the **** out of the opposition?

I don't really know any of these player TBH. I think any of our better Varisty sides would be more of match. I wouldn't be surprised if these guys go out to hammer the **** out of England more than try for a win. I don't know who arranged these teams but it could've/should've had more to it. I would have said England to play the Cheetahs and Lions teams who have minimal players in the Bokke and could do with a game to keep them matchfit for when the S15 pick up again or the Kings to show everyone the "calibre" team that SA will be fielding in next years S15. A "Cats" team with Lions and Cheetahs combined could've been interesting LOL

Edit; I see the Southern Barbarians are more of a 'development' team of colored club players. You shouldn't worry so much about the hammering the **** of players I think. If we wanted to do that you'd have seen names like;

"Boom" Pienaar
"Os" Hamman
JP Nel
"Bees" Roux
Hendrik Rademan
"Vleis" Visagie

IE angry Boere

 

[TRF_heineken]

I don't really know any of these player TBH. I think any of our better Varisty sides would be more of match. I wouldn't be surprised if these guys go out to hammer the **** out of England more than try for a win. I don't know who arranged these teams but it could've/should've had more to it. I would have said England to play the Cheetahs and Lions teams who have minimal players in the Bokke and could do with a game to keep them matchfit for when the S15 pick up again or the Kings to show everyone the "calibre" team that SA will be fielding in next years S15. A "Cats" team with Lions and Cheetahs combined could've been interesting LOL

Edit; I see the Southern Barbarians are more of a 'development' team of colored club players. You shouldn't worry so much about the hammering the **** of players I think. If we wanted to do that you'd have seen names like;

"Boom" Pienaar
"Os" Hamman
JP Nel
"Bees" Roux
Hendrik Rademan
"Vleis" Visagie

IE angry Boere

Yeah instead, you got the gangsta brasse vannie kaap! shivs in their socks, date-rape drugs hidden in their mouthguards... You poms should be fine....

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Yeah instead, you got the gangsta brasse vannie kaap! shivs in their socks, date-rape drugs hidden in their mouthguards... You poms should be fine....

haha thanks dude. We really should be, especially as the team we've put out is pretty much on a par with our test team.

Agree with whats been said, though. Wales are playing the Brumbies, for example, shame we couldn't have super rugby game, or as you say, the emerging springboks

 

[Gena_ZA]

Actually I think this is unfair towards the England side, this is not proper preparation or testing of your reserve strength.

SA Rugby is aiming this as the rebirth of the once proud SA Barbarians - vastly different for the international Barbarians.
I would not have played a S15 team, rather a National University team or the current champions from the Vodacom Cup, at least they will have some synergy.

The only blokes I know is the two fly halves from the Boland that played for the Stormers when we had the no 10 crisis last year - think they where number 4 and 5 on the pecking order -Elgar Watts and Ricardo Croy

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Actually I think this is unfair towards the England side, this is not proper preparation or testing of your reserve strength.

SA Rugby is aiming this as the rebirth of the once proud SA Barbarians - vastly different for the international Barbarians.
I would not have played a S15 team, rather a National University team or the current champions from the Vodacom Cup, at least they will have some synergy.

The only blokes I know is the two fly halves from the Boland that played for the Stormers when we had the no 10 crisis last year - think they where number 4 and 5 on the pecking order -Elgar Watts and Ricardo Croy

Jeesh we had a curse at 10 last year. If I remember correctly 7!!!! different 10's jogged out for us over the series!

Moving Duvenhage one spot out was the best of the makeshift options IMO. Didn't we bring in Earl Rose a well. Then there was Grant, Coleman, Van Aswegen.. Lionel Cronje? Catrakilis. Can't even remember everyone (and too lazy to look it up).

But I am getting off topic.

England to win by a landslide against a makeshift club team.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Grant, Coleman, Catrakilis, Cronje, van Aswegen, Dollie, Rose... Even Aplon played fly half last year in Cape Town

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

 

[User1245]

The 9, Boela Abrahams, is about 5 foot tall. Watch a Currie Cup 1st Div EP game a couple seasons back out of interest, but just ending watching how this tiny dude was handling it all haha

 

[TRF_heineken]

The English Rugby Team visited a Soweto Orphanage today. "It was heartbreaking and sad to see their little faces without any hope..." Said Sipho, age 6.