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What changes with Eddie Jones

Peat

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To be honest, I feel the media are making it sound a lot worse than it is. Saints mentioned earlier that king would have a chat with jones.

They've used the exact same quotes in the Guardian and in the Telegraph so I'm going to guess they're a fairly accurate representation of Jim Mallinder's latest utterances on the matter.

There is little need for the RFU to behave this way and little enough gain also.
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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Don't know if it's already been discussed, but what about Haskell as an interim captain?

He's really impressed me this season playing alongside Smith, an open side, pretty sure he'd be playing with one for England that would just allow him to go around and smash things.

He can nurture Launchbury into the role and with Ewers out indefinitely with his knee injury I'd say he'd be my first choice at 6.

Haskell has a much worse disciple record for England than Hartley and mainly isn't first choice 6.

I do think it's a better shout than Hartley though, just limits itoje or Clifford or a another getting game time (same could be said about Hartley though).

No standout candidates really
 

nickdnz

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I feel if you are going with Haskell as an intrum captain, you may as well just move Robshaw to 6. You maintain a bit of continuity while accepting it is a short term selection.
 

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)

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They've used the exact same quotes in the Guardian and in the Telegraph so I'm going to guess they're a fairly accurate representation of Jim Mallinder's latest utterances on the matter.

There is little need for the RFU to behave this way and little enough gain also.

Maybe he is on about the media speculation.

Like Jones "apparently offering him a job" instead of he is looking at and such and such.

The media has been printing every and anything about the coaching team ATM.
 

Which Tyler

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Well, the RFU still don't need permission (not that that's what Mallinder said); but it'd be nice to inform the club.

But when is the right time to officially inform the club? Especially as opposed to unofficially doing so, which seems to be the case currently. They may well be talking to 2-3 different "attack" coaches; supposedly talking to Ali Hepher at Ex for example. Should all their clubs be told now? or once they actually start contract negotiations?
Is the emphasis on the RFU to inform the club, or the individual to tell their employer?

I wonder at what point Saints officially informed Clermont that they were talking to King.
 
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Yoshimitsu

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Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.... Madness

I love the logic behind it:
He's missed like a whole year of his career through bans, missed a lions tour and a rwc (and was heavily involved in the scandals of the previous one), got a red card when captaining his club in the grand final, worked with sports psychologists and had anger management to no noticeable effect.
But nah, lets give him more responsibility, it'll definitely work out!!!!

It seems there's two camps forming.

Dylan is "edgy" but has performed well for England and will moderate his behaviour appropriately. Give him a chance.

And

Dylan is so fundamentally mentally flawed he shouldn't be near the job. He was the worst disciplinary record of any current player for a reason. He has no self control.



I have made myself clear previously. I fall into the latter camp and I'll expand more here. Dylan Hartley was sent off in the premiership final for calling Wayne Barnes a cheat. To this day despite a decent proportion of the rest of the world and a judiciary finding against him he denies it. He seems to believe that directing the words at another professional is somehow acceptable as mitigation.

Gouging - personally I'm up for life bans for this offence. Hartley got 26 weeks for in my view the most egregious cowardly behaviour that exists in the game. That will forever colour my view of a player. All the other stuff points to a pattern of petty violent offending.

Finally and the main point of my argument. Dylan is a serial offender. My belief if that he's not stupid as evidenced when interviewed. He's articulate and presents himself well enough. My contention is that he's just one of those people that run around with two slightly disconnected wires in their brains... When they touch, stupid happens. It doesn't matter how much he wants to try and stay out of trouble, he can't and won't. When he does try to be nice Dylan he loses so much of what makes him effective he's not worth playing.

To be honest I might pick him as I reckon he's a good option but captain? Pretty much on the "never" list for me.
 

Peat

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Is the emphasis on the RFU to inform the club, or the individual to tell their employer?

I don't know but there should be an emphasis on the RFU not poisoning relationships with the clubs unnecessarily, regardless of wrong or right or anything else.
 

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From an entirely personal POV, I just hope that Jones gets us playing more attractive rugby.

I'd like England to win things, but for me this is secondary to enjoying the ride. Somewhere in the last four years I stopped enjoying watching England and have thought about packing in following England altogether. I'm not patriotic enough to run on passion alone, I have to enjoy watching England too.

I don't feel that attractive rugby and winning rugby are mutually exclusive. I think you have to be creative in attack to have any chance of being the best. So I'm hoping Jones will take us in that direction. But I'm nervous now Gustard is mentioning keeping Barritt.
 

Ragey Erasmus

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From an entirely personal POV, I just hope that Jones gets us playing more attractive rugby.

I'd like England to win things, but for me this is secondary to enjoying the ride. Somewhere in the last four years I stopped enjoying watching England and have thought about packing in following England altogether. I'm not patriotic enough to run on passion alone, I have to enjoy watching England too.

I don't feel that attractive rugby and winning rugby are mutually exclusive. I think you have to be creative in attack to have any chance of being the best. So I'm hoping Jones will take us in that direction. But I'm nervous now Gustard is mentioning keeping Barritt.

The last 6N saw England playing some very attractive rugby. What we actually lacked was the more boring pragmatic rugby. Against Scotland we missed tons of easy points and against Ireland we couldn't do the slog fest like they could and they just stifled us.
 

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I feel like it's the forwards where we're missing out.
We've got the backs that can, and have, played some great rugby - but the forwards are failing at the scrum, lineout and ruck - whether this is coaching (my opinion) or personnel, that's Jones' opinion.
With the exception of 12 I wouldn't make (m)any changes to the backline.
 

Ragey Erasmus

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I feel like it's the forwards where we're missing out.
We've got the backs that can, and have, played some great rugby - but the forwards are failing at the scrum, lineout and ruck - whether this is coaching (my opinion) or personnel, that's Jones' opinion.
With the exception of 12 I wouldn't make (m)any changes to the backline.

I'd be interested to see Daly in, that boot alone would make a difference. Just the knowledge that he can punish you from beyond the half way mark will make teams play differently, as seen with Wales and Halfpenny or now Biggar. Having an accurate long range kicker is deadly to your opponent and England just don't have that with any of our 10's. The only problem with having Daly is losing JJ, who has better feet and doesn't always look to go to the outside of a defender, often leaving the winger no space.
 

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Daly would definitely be in my 23 - at the moment he'd be starting 13, but Joseph is coming back from injury so should get better game on game, and there's still Tuilagi to come back (who, with everyone on top form, would be my first choice 13 every time).
At the moment Daly is definitely the form 13 in the country, though, and as you say his long range kicking would be a boost.
 

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can I just point out we did play some good rugby under Lancaster in the 6 nations but then he bottled for the world cup. Just remember France
 

Peat

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I feel like it's the forwards where we're missing out.
We've got the backs that can, and have, played some great rugby - but the forwards are failing at the scrum, lineout and ruck - whether this is coaching (my opinion) or personnel, that's Jones' opinion.
With the exception of 12 I wouldn't make (m)any changes to the backline.

The backs left quite a few points out there last time around. They were also shaky in defence and when forced into a kicking duel. They looked great running at space from front foot ball but their execution of their more prosaic duties needs improvement and I can't see them getting much change out of anyone the moment you ask them to do things when not on the front foot.

The pack's had a rocky year but the scrum was good in the 6N and has been generally good throughout Lancaster's reign; the lineout's been pants for most of the year (except when one of Parling and Lawes have been playing) but has been generally good before that. Some halfway sane coaching and selecting and the set piece will be fine. The breakdown and ball carrying are the real issues.
 

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Haskell has a much worse disciple record for England than Hartley and mainly isn't first choice 6.

I do think it's a better shout than Hartley though, just limits itoje or Clifford or a another getting game time (same could be said about Hartley though).

No standout candidates really

Can't find stats for penalties, nor for stupid bloody penalties like stamping on a man, after drawing the refs attention to him, during your own maul. But during 3429 minutes of game time, Hask has 4 yellows (as a backrow), Hartley, with 3259 minutes, has 3 yellows. Hardly "much worse". If we include all competitions (according to statbunker), we're talking around 15k mins for Hask, 16k for Hartley, Hask has 10 yellows, no reds, Hartley has 16 yellows and 2 reds.

I'd still go for Launch.
 

ncurd

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Can't find stats for penalties, nor for stupid bloody penalties like stamping on a man, after drawing the refs attention to him, during your own maul. But during 3429 minutes of game time, Hask has 4 yellows (as a backrow), Hartley, with 3259 minutes, has 3 yellows. Hardly "much worse". If we include all competitions (according to statbunker), we're talking around 15k mins for Hask, 16k for Hartley, Hask has 10 yellows, no reds, Hartley has 16 yellows and 2 reds.

I'd still go for Launch.
How many bans? How many weeks off for bans?
 
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