[2020 Six Nations] England vs Ireland (23/02/20)

[TRF_Olyy]

What's the Triple Crown?

Mini ***le within the six nations,
If one of England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales beats the other three then they're the holders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Crown_(rugby_union)

 

[Dai Perk]

I guess I probably should have worked that out for myself.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If we win a championship this year we're historically better than Scotland. Currently one champo behind but equal on slams and one ahead on triple crowns.

If Ellis Genge was telling the truth he'd throw this game.

 

[Dai Perk]

If we win a championship this year we're historically better than Scotland.

I'm shocked to learn that isn't already the case! Scotland haven't beaten England since 2018, and haven't beaten Ireland or Wales since 2017. Aren't Scotland historically the weakest of the home nations?

 

[Amiga500]

I'm shocked to learn that isn't already the case! Scotland haven't beaten England since 2018, and haven't beaten Ireland or Wales since 2017. Aren't Scotland historically the weakest of the home nations?

No, not at all. Before the game went professional, Scotland were more or less equivalent to Ireland.

Professionalism is ill-suited to the game in the traditional hotbed of Scottish rugby - the sparsely populated borders.

With no population centre large enough to support a professional team, the SRU have eventually had to take the two biggest districts Glasgow and Edinburgh - and go with them. Prior attempts at having 4 districts having failed financially.

An ill-fated resurrection of a professional borders team with the Border Reivers in the Celtic league came to an end in 2007.

 

[Groundhog]

I'm shocked to learn that isn't already the case! Scotland haven't beaten England since 2018, and haven't beaten Ireland or Wales since 2017. Aren't Scotland historically the weakest of the home nations?

You have to understand that Ireland were utterly abject and terrible for the longest time and not coming dead last was considered a huge victory. In the 1990s we never finished outside the bottom two teams and lost a test series v Namibia in '91. Then when professionalism took over it took us a while to adapt. We didn't win anything between 85 and 04. We turned it around when the Celtic League was formed and our provinces were properly organised and professionalised in the early 2000s.

 

[Dai Perk]

An ill-fated resurrection of a professional borders team with the Border Reivers in the Celtic league came to an end in 2007.

I bet those matches were something to behold...

In the 1990s we never finished outside the bottom two teams and lost a test series v Namibia in '91.

Wow. Since I'm so new to the sport, my whole view of Ireland was influenced by their win over the AB's in Chicago and then the ramp up to being ranked #1 for a bit there. Thanks for all this great info!

 

[Amiga500]

Then when professionalism took over it took us a while to adapt. We didn't win anything between 85 and 04. We turned it around when the Celtic League was formed and our provinces were properly organised and professionalised in the early 2000s.

And the provinces lend themselves very well to the professional game.

1. well distributed geographically
2. well distributed among population centres (albeit the ever expanding Dublin is seriously unbalancing things across many facets of Irish life now beyond rugby)
3. a long tradition going back to the 1940s of the provinces having representative sides that would face off in the Interpro championships


Scotland & Wales have issues with some (if not all) of the above with their professional regions.

 

[Greeno]

Squad for Sunday, 4 to cut from this list

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)

Backs
Elliot Daly (Saracens)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

 

[LIONSxv]

I think some folks in the media are underselling England imo. A bad game against the French... Although we actually dominated possession and territory. And a wash out vs the Scots.

We do have a lot of key absentees as opposed to Ireland and Wales. But we still have lots of quality. If Earl plays 8 and curry reverts to 6. We have imo the best current flanker combination in then NH. One of the best second row combos. And whoever plays loose head one of the best front rows. SH is a weakness as is full back. But even even with 3 or 4 starters missing in the backs. They should be a match for the rest of the home nations

 

[Amiga500]

Squad for Sunday, 4 to cut from this list

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)

Backs
Elliot Daly (Saracens)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

There is my selection for Eddie to cut.

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Why have 5 locks in the squad? Jones is an idiot, you can't defend that stupidity time and time again.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Why have 5 locks in the squad? Jones is an idiot, you can't defend that stupidity time and time again.

Yeah he's clearly bonkers, need at least 7 really.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

We do have a lot of key absentees as opposed to Ireland

"This is it, you've got a chance to post a pic of Garry. Everyone, friend and foe, will hate you for it and we both know how much you want to be adored by the masses... What are you gonna do? Stick to you principles, or give up the only thing you believe in so a bunch of losers on the internet like you...
...
...
...
You're a pussy"
- My internal monologue

 

[Leinster Fan]

Squad for Sunday, 4 to cut from this list

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)

Backs
Elliot Daly (Saracens)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Given the forwards to backs ratio another 6-2 split seems likely.

I'd guess at

1. Genge 2. George 3. Sinckler
4. Kris 5. Itoje
6. Ludlam 8. Curry 7. Underhill
9. Youngs 10. Ford
12. Farrell 13. Tuilagi
11. Daly 15. Furbank 14. May

16. LCD 17. Marler 18. Stuart
19. Launchbury 20. Lawes 21. Earl
22. Heinz 23. Slade

Although he does seem to hate the idea of dropping Joseph from the 23 so possible we'll see him in instead of one of the forwards, probably Launchbury. Or he could drop Ford and start Slade. Or he could swap Marler/Genge and Youngs/Heinz. I don't know and it is Eddie so who knows really.

Either way, I think we have just about enough to beat that team away, they're roughly equal in the tight 5 imo and I'd give us the edge over that backrow (unless we're unlucky and Earl starts at 8 with Curry at 6, in which case I'd very much back the English backrow over ours.

No one is particularly delighted about their 9s and I'd give Sexton the edge at 10, we should have physical enough centres to limit Manu's impact even if he's fully fit, and our back three is made up of good players in form. That's an optimistic reading of things it's mot going to be easy, but bottom line I think we can win, although I wouldn't be surprised if England beat us, and quite comfortably at that.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yeah he's clearly bonkers, need at least 7 really.

Yeah, the 3 hookers need someone to aim at...

There must be some rocket scientist of a poster who can explain the point of a 27 man squad 2 days before the match day 23 is announced. It frankly beats me.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Match day squad + travelling reserves,

Think it's usually 25 named but I guess they've named extra cause of injury concerns

 

[Leinster Fan]

It's normal and everyone does it, England are the only ones to announce it to the media a few days before they name the actual team.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's normal and everyone does it, England are the only ones to announce it to the media a few days before they name the actual team.

Cheers. Seems pointless to announce it. No doubt Jones has his reasons.

 

[Greeno]

I think one of the main reasons England do it is so the players not selected will go back to there club and play for them at the weekend. Pretty sure it's parts of the EPS agreement.