Argentina vs France, Córdoba

[Melhor Time]

****. De la Vega good game for Arg.

Yeah... I´ve been talking him up for about a year now... glad to see others!

Holy ****... Argentina won this! 24 players rested!

I´ll say it... This is a world champion side in the making!

 

[groga]

Argentina took their chances and France didn't. A pretty disappointing loss as I thought we had the better game oh well bring on next week!

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Yeah... I´ve been talking him up for about a year now... glad to see others!

Holy ****... Argentina won this! 24 players rested!

I´ll say it... This is a world champion side in the making!

I think we can allow a little hyperbole.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Yeah... I´ve been talking him up for about a year now... glad to see others!

Holy ****... Argentina won this! 24 players rested!

I´ll say it... This is a world champion side in the making!

Got to get a better scrum mind.

 

[psychic duck]

that is seriously embarrassing that Italy got easily beaten, and now France have lost ... to the Argentina reserves

only maybe two of those players are considered first choice

France (who dominated the set piece of that match and really should have won) will not be happy with Fulgence Ouedraogo for that poor pass

 

[Sker]

Awesome! Well done to Argentina.

This just makes me even more excited for the Tri+1 Nations, I can't wait.

 

[Melhor Time]

I think we can allow a little hyperbole.

Given its true... however this loss result was unthinkable and underlines Los Pampas XV. It´ll have been noticed by SANZAR authorities with Pichot already having had behind closed door talks for Buenos Aires to enter Super Rugby a.s.a.p.

Given how Australia and New Zealand have been playing so far this June they are not looking like number 1 and 2 in the world from the perspective of being ahead of the rest. Their away matches will require significant improvements or they won´t win.

Got to get a better scrum mind.

For sure. Mind you Guiñazú is a hooker playing loosehead and Chaparro was on debut. With Ayerza and Figallo Argentina have a great duo.

that is seriously embarrassing that Italy got easily beaten, and now France have lost ... to the Argentina reserves

only maybe two of those players are considered first choice

France (who dominated the set piece of that match and really should have won) will not be happy with Fulgence Ouedraogo for that poor pass

I wonder how many will go on to play in the Top 14 now. Montero, de la Vega, Cubelli and Landajo all being too good for Los Pampas XV.

PSA must be doing something wrong. Lapandry has to start. Thats one mistake. His game plan just is not working for France at all.

The Pumas not only had weak props but poor scrumming in the secondrow. Lozada has long been considered poor in this area.

 

[Wally]

Does anyone know where I can watch the highlights of this match?

Melhor, regarding Los Pampas XV entering Super Rugby, how do they plan on making the logistics of a Buenos Aires based side work? Surely they would have to be based in the South African conference. And even then, the powers in South African rugby are never going to let an Argentinian side come in at the expense of one of their own. We have seen that is the only way forward for the Southern Kings as the three conferences need to be even. Perhaps something will be arranged in time for the next television deal in 4-5 years.

 

[Nielsch]

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/videohub/video/clipDeportes?id=1546834&cc=7586

 

[smartcooky]

Given how Australia and New Zealand have been playing so far this June they are not looking like number 1 and 2 in the world from the perspective of being ahead of the rest. Their away matches will require significant improvements or they won´t win.

Anyone who thinks Argentina are going to be an easy five pointer in the inaugural Rugby Championship had better think again. Write them off at your peril.

While they may struggle away from home, they are going to be very difficult to beat in Argentina. It doesn't require much of a leap to consider the possibility that they could win one or two of their home games.

Melhor

[textarea]
15 Roman Miralles
14 Belisario Agulla
13 Joaquin Tuculet
12 Felipe Contepomi
11 Manuel Montero
10 Ignacio Mieres
9 Martin Landajo
1 Eusebio Guinazu
2 Bruno Postiglioni
3 Francisco Nahuel Tetaz
4 Benjamin Macome
5 Esteban Lozada
6 Julio Farias Cabello
7 Tomas de la Vega
8 Tomas Leonardi

Replacements
16 Andres Bordoy
17 Pablo Henn
18 Rodrigo Bruno
19 Rodrigo Baez
20 Tomas Cubelli
21 Ben Urdapilleta
22 Facundo Barrea
[/textarea]

This is the team from the weekend v France. Which of these players would you expect to make Argentina's opening Rugby Championship match against South Africa at Newlands in August

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I'd say only De la Vega to start (at a stretch), plus Mieres, Landajo and one lock for the bench.

If I was Phelan, I'd start De la Vega. He adds the tight work Leguizamón doesn't, and for what I saw last night he has better discipline. I've only seen play one game, but I was pretty impressed.

 

[Big Ewis]

well good victory by Argentina...they looked good ! Great runners, strong legs, awesome pace...thanks for that link !
Obviously this isn't the full strength French side either, but we still lost this on our typical stupid mistakes...two big ones...result= interceptions, tries, defeat....

uuuuuuuuuughhhh...

 

[psychic duck]

Given its true... however this loss result was unthinkable and underlines Los Pampas XV. It´ll have been noticed by SANZAR authorities with Pichot already having had behind closed door talks for Buenos Aires to enter Super Rugby a.s.a.p.

Given how Australia and New Zealand have been playing so far this June they are not looking like number 1 and 2 in the world from the perspective of being ahead of the rest. Their away matches will require significant improvements or they won´t win.

let's not go too far in predicting Argentina to do too well, as to be honest it was more France blowing that match, than Argentina winning it, there were three key factors that were French errors

1. Parra had an off day (whilst Contepomi was on form kicking)
2. France gifted some silly penalties to Argentina
3. Trinh-Duc gifted a try to Belisario Agulla to score
4. Ouedraogo threw the ball on the floor leading to the winning try

the point is, is that Argentina weren't amazing and didn't look like they were dominating, but France gifted it to them

also, why haven't Australia looked number two in the world? they've beaten the Six Nations champions twice with important players in their backline (O'Connor, Beale) both missing and that Scotland result was just due to a monsoon, I can't think of who has looked better than them, same with New Zealand, I didn't see the second Ireland match so not sure what happened there, but I saw the first and they were very technically efficient

finally, as Argentina haven't being playing their first choice, there is no clue as to what form they are on, and whether the combinations will work, and how strong they are

they shouldn't be an easy win though, and certainly won't be like Italy in 2000 to 2002

I wonder how many will go on to play in the Top 14 now. Montero, de la Vega, Cubelli and Landajo all being too good for Los Pampas XV.

The irony being, the Pampas XV weren't so strong this year

Montero would have definitely upped his offers, Cuthbert scored the winning try against France in the Six Nations and after that Toulon and Racing-Métro were fighting for him (he decided to stick with Cardiff Blues on a one year contract in the end)

PSA must be doing something wrong. Lapandry has to start. Thats one mistake. His game plan just is not working for France at all.

He was the wrong appointment, France's first choice was Guy Novès, but he refused it, and PSA the second choice, but although he's not as crazy as Lièvremont, the game plan doesn't suit the players France have, and as a result they are massively underachieving and now drop to seventh in the rankings

I'm not sure it's necessarily his selection that is wrong, it's his game plan not getting the best out the players, none of the Argentina team yesterday on paper would have got into the France team, and France gave away some silly penalties keeping Argentina in it

For sure. Mind you Guiñazú is a hooker playing loosehead and Chaparro was on debut. With Ayerza and Figallo Argentina have a great duo. The Pumas not only had weak props but poor scrumming in the secondrow. Lozada has long been considered poor in this area.

Guiñazú needs to get out of the side as soon as possible he was crap at both scrummaging and throwing in, Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro has barely played all season for Stade and hasn't looked good enough either, Lozada got poor reports from Edinburgh fans and was on the bench most season behind two locks who aren't international class

I'm not concerned about the Pumas scrum though, Ayerza is one of the best in the Premiership, Creevy is a good scrummaging hooker, Figallo had a good World Cup and was getting a bit of form back late season with Montpellier, I would have wanted him to start these matches to be honest, Maximiliano Bustos is a decent scrummager and did well for the Pampas XV last year, whilst Gómez Kodela has seemed to win good reports with Biarritz although I don't quite see him as that good, add to that Albacete one of the best lock scrummagers

the Pumas scrum is fine, just not as much depth as there has been for the past decade with Grau, Reggiardo, Hasan, Roncero, Scelzo, Ayerza, Ledesma, Mendez all there

Anyone who thinks Argentina are going to be an easy five pointer in the inaugural Rugby Championship had better think again. Write them off at your peril.

While they may struggle away from home, they are going to be very difficult to beat in Argentina. It doesn't require much of a leap to consider the possibility that they could win one or two of their home games.

Melhor

[textarea]
15 Roman Miralles
14 Belisario Agulla
13 Joaquin Tuculet
12 Felipe Contepomi
11 Manuel Montero
10 Ignacio Mieres
9 Martin Landajo
1 Eusebio Guinazu
2 Bruno Postiglioni
3 Francisco Nahuel Tetaz
4 Benjamin Macome
5 Esteban Lozada
6 Julio Farias Cabello
7 Tomas de la Vega
8 Tomas Leonardi

Replacements
16 Andres Bordoy
17 Pablo Henn
18 Rodrigo Bruno
19 Rodrigo Baez
20 Tomas Cubelli
21 Ben Urdapilleta
22 Facundo Barrea
[/textarea]f

This is the team from the weekend v France. Which of these players would you expect to make Argentina's opening Rugby Championship match against South Africa at Newlands in August

Tuculet, Contepomi, Landajo, Farías Cabello, de la Vega, and one of Guiñazú or Postiglioni will play 16 (unfortunately) have a chance

but realistically, Phelan has been quite conservative with his selections, as was shown at the World Cup where he should have realised Amorosino and Imhoff have done well in France and start them

so taking that into account, I would expect most of the World Cup side to retain their places, and players like de la Vega to be on the bench as Phelan has shown he prefers to start newbies on the bench first before starting them

for me personally, I think Tuculet should be considered at 13 perhaps he did a great kick to set up the winning try, de la Vega should start with Leguizamon or Fernández Lobbe shifting to 6 perhaps, and Cubelli would be on the bench for me he's a really intelligent little scrum half

 

[Melhor Time]

I'd say only De la Vega to start (at a stretch), plus Mieres, Landajo and one lock for the bench.

If I was Phelan, I'd start De la Vega. He adds the tight work Leguizamón doesn't, and for what I saw last night he has better discipline. I've only seen play one game, but I was pretty impressed.

de la Vega looks ahead of Alvaro Galindo for his workrate and the simple reason that he has the game to be a fetcher and not just a left-right player like Argentina tends to use. Leguizamón should move to 6 with Fernández Lobbe captaining from 8. A shame for Senatore who has been good over the past year. He´ll likely be on the bench.

Mieres should be in the squad but, unfortnately for him, Nicolás Sánchez is there. Landajo and Cubelli should both be there but that would mean 4 scrumhalves which is not going to happen.

Anyone who thinks Argentina are going to be an easy five pointer in the inaugural Rugby Championship had better think again. Write them off at your peril.

While they may struggle away from home, they are going to be very difficult to beat in Argentina. It doesn't require much of a leap to consider the possibility that they could win one or two of their home games.

Melhor

[textarea]
15 Roman Miralles
14 Belisario Agulla
13 Joaquin Tuculet
12 Felipe Contepomi
11 Manuel Montero
10 Ignacio Mieres
9 Martin Landajo
1 Eusebio Guinazu
2 Bruno Postiglioni
3 Francisco Nahuel Tetaz
4 Benjamin Macome
5 Esteban Lozada
6 Julio Farias Cabello
7 Tomas de la Vega
8 Tomas Leonardi

Replacements
16 Andres Bordoy
17 Pablo Henn
18 Rodrigo Bruno
19 Rodrigo Baez
20 Tomas Cubelli
21 Ben Urdapilleta
22 Facundo Barrea
[/textarea]

This is the team from the weekend v France. Which of these players would you expect to make Argentina's opening Rugby Championship match against South Africa at Newlands in August

This may sound scary or arrogant... but, honestly at most two will start. - However I would like to have Tomás Cubelli, Leonardo Senatore (will start next week, started vs Italy last week) and Tomás de la Vega in the 22. Contepomi won´t play. He will in November, however. Roncero will play, I figure he will be the replacement prop given Figallo, Ayerza, Bustos and Orlandi are all in camp now while Roncero is with his family settlign back into life in Buenos Aires after a decade of rugby in England and France.

Probable team vs South Africa
15 Lucas González Amorosino
14 Martín Bustos Moyano (goalkicker)
13 Horacio Agulla
12 Santiago Fernández
11 Juan Imhoff
10 Juan Martín Hernández
9 Nicolás Vergallo
8 Juan Fernández Lobbe (captain)
7 Tomás de la Vega
6 Juan Manuel Leguizamón
5 Patricio Albacete (vicecaptain)
4 Manuel Carizza
3 Juan Figallo
2 Agustín Creevy
1 Marcos Ayerza

16 Bruno Postiglioni, 17 Rodrigo Roncero, 18 Julio Farías Cabello, 19 Leonardo Senatore, 20 Tomás Cubelli, 21 Marcelo Bosch, 22 Gonzalo Camacho

* I´m doing a weekly profile on a Pumas player. Started in February and will continue until TRC gets underway.

24 players have already been confirmed for TRC. The six others will be confirmed after the current home test series. Click here to see the 24 already selected. None, I repeat, none are playing for Los Pumas this month.

Does anyone know where I can watch the highlights of this match?

Melhor, regarding Los Pampas XV entering Super Rugby, how do they plan on making the logistics of a Buenos Aires based side work? Surely they would have to be based in the South African conference. And even then, the powers in South African rugby are never going to let an Argentinian side come in at the expense of one of their own. We have seen that is the only way forward for the Southern Kings as the three conferences need to be even. Perhaps something will be arranged in time for the next television deal in 4-5 years.

The logistics argument has been used before by people saying Argentina will make the Tri Nations too uncomfortable and non-playable. It is all just nonsense and its hard to find anyone now saying that Argentina shouldn´play even though the team in 2007 was quite a bit better than what we now have. With Super Rugby I think its the same thing. It looks to be unplayable yet Auckland has a team in Australia´ rugby league championship. Toronto has a team in the NBA. Italy are in the Celtic League. Japan are in the Pacific Nations Cup. I am sure that SANZAR will - anybody who saw last nights game in Córdoba will want Super Rugby matches in the country. The crowd was off the charts and it was not even full.

let's not go too far in predicting Argentina to do too well, as to be honest it was more France blowing that match, than Argentina winning it, there were three key factors that were French errors

1. Parra had an off day (whilst Contepomi was on form kicking)
2. France gifted some silly penalties to Argentina
3. Trinh-Duc gifted a try to Belisario Agulla to score
4. Ouedraogo threw the ball on the floor leading to the winning try

the point is, is that Argentina weren't amazing and didn't look like they were dominating, but France gifted it to them

also, why haven't Australia looked number two in the world? they've beaten the Six Nations champions twice with important players in their backline (O'Connor, Beale) both missing and that Scotland result was just due to a monsoon, I can't think of who has looked better than them, same with New Zealand, I didn't see the second Ireland match so not sure what happened there, but I saw the first and they were very technically efficient

finally, as Argentina haven't being playing their first choice, there is no clue as to what form they are on, and whether the combinations will work, and how strong they are

they shouldn't be an easy win though, and certainly won't be like Italy in 2000 to 2002

France never should have lost. They did though and the first try was down to Trinh-Duc thinking he had the offload under control when he didnpt thanks to a good tackle which meant he lost control and gifted it to Belisario Agulla.

Australia ave been good but far from great. Wales should have won both tests. A little more age and the Welsh would have I feel.

The irony being, the Pampas XV weren't so strong this year

Montero would have definitely upped his offers, Cuthbert scored the winning try against France in the Six Nations and after that Toulon and Racing-Métro were fighting for him (he decided to stick with Cardiff Blues on a one year contract in the end)

In hindsight it appears that the style of play was the real motivation and not just playing to win the Vodacom Cup. They amde so many changes to who played every week and played a brand of rugby that is so different to what Los Pumas always do.

He was the wrong appointment, France's first choice was Guy Novès, but he refused it, and PSA the second choice, but although he's not as crazy as Lièvremont, the game plan doesn't suit the players France have, and as a result they are massively underachieving and now drop to seventh in the rankings

Yes.

Guiñazú needs to get out of the side as soon as possible he was crap at both scrummaging and throwing in, Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro has barely played all season for Stade and hasn't looked good enough either, Lozada got poor reports from Edinburgh fans and was on the bench most season behind two locks who aren't international class

None will make the TRC squad and thats good!

Tuculet, Contepomi, Landajo, Farías Cabello, de la Vega, and one of Guiñazú or Postiglioni will play 16 (unfortunately) have a chance

but realistically, Phelan has been quite conservative with his selections, as was shown at the World Cup where he should have realised Amorosino and Imhoff have done well in France and start them

so taking that into account, I would expect most of the World Cup side to retain their places, and players like de la Vega to be on the bench as Phelan has shown he prefers to start newbies on the bench first before starting them

for me personally, I think Tuculet should be considered at 13 perhaps he did a great kick to set up the winning try, de la Vega should start with Leguizamon or Fernández Lobbe shifting to 6 perhaps, and Cubelli would be on the bench for me he's a really intelligent little scrum half

Tuculet is certain now over Tiesi.

It looks, to be, as if the six players picked will be:

Joaquín Tuculet
Tomás Cubelli
Julio Farías
Tomás de la Vega
Leonardo Senatore
Bruno Postiglioni

The selection for game 2 should clear everything up. Maybe there will be changes too such as Francisco Goméz Kodela over Juan Orlandi and Manuel Montero over Raphael Carballo. If Roncero does play, all but certain, he´ll likely make it a 31 man squad.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Watremez out of the second test, Thomas Domingo flying to Buenos Aires. Good news that Domingo can make a comeback.

 

[justanargie]

We didn't win this game, France lost it... Anyway, the positive thing is that, we have played with reserves and stayed close to the score; and that let us win thanks to the French's mistake (one of them)... we were lucky...

These matches, are also positive to see players like De la Vega, Montero... facing a superior squad...

 

[Surefire]

I feel it is incorrect to say one team lost a game, as opposed to the other team won. Yes France gave away silly penalties and were intercepted for a try, at the end of the day credit to Argentina for staying tough and taking the chances that were given to them. I also am not giving up on PSA just yet, although this does not matter b/c I have no control over his employment, let's see more out him before we write him off.

Just my 2 cents

 

[psychic duck]

I feel it is incorrect to say one team lost a game, as opposed to the other team won. Yes France gave away silly penalties and were intercepted for a try, at the end of the day credit to Argentina for staying tough and taking the chances that were given to them. I also am not giving up on PSA just yet, although this does not matter b/c I have no control over his employment, let's see more out him before we write him off.

Just my 2 cents

1. France did lose it rather than Argentina won it, as they gifted the Pumas two tries with poor passes
2. Although it's only early in PSA's stint with France, I've not been at all impressed and I don't think he's the right man to get the best out of these players, he's shown no sign of adapting to suit his personnel either, I don't think he's a national team coach

 

[Surefire]

1. France did lose it rather than Argentina won it, as they gifted the Pumas two tries with poor passes
2. Although it's only early in PSA's stint with France, I've not been at all impressed and I don't think he's the right man to get the best out of these players, he's shown no sign of adapting to suit his personnel either, I don't think he's a national team coach

I see what your point, and as a France fan it makes me feel better to say we lost it rather than Argentina won it. However at the end of the day the better team won. There are plenty of teams who make mistakes but still find a way to win.
For PSA, you are probably right, and I did not appreciate PSA's comments on Rugbyrama yesterday. This week could prove your point, let's see if they can adjust.