Heineken Cup P5: Leinster vs Exeter Chiefs - 13/10/2012

[Saintjay]

And also if a team has to use their full strength squad every game to make the top 6 in the Aviva (it's top 6 for qualification, right?) then they shouldn't really be in the HEC anyway.

Edit: *probably won't be able to compete for the trophy anyway

So if your in a league where you have to fight for a top six spot to get into the HEC, you don't deserve to be in it. I might be missing your point but at the moment I just can't see it.

 

[profitius]

Maybe because all their big names that they would customarily rest want off last season and the season before!

Better comparison Leinster 2012 Heinekin Final Team against their 2011-2012 rabopro12 appearances.

R Kearney (7/22), F McFadden (13/22), B O'Driscoll (4/22), G D'Arcy (8/22), I Nacewa (18-22), J Sexton (8/22), E Reddan (12/22); C Healy (8/22), R Strauss (21/22 - 15 starts), M Ross (9/22), L Cullen (capt) (9/22), B Thorn (5/22), K McLaughlin (19/22 - 14 starts), S O'Brien (6/22), J Heaslip (7/22).

The non Irish internationals are in bold. Keep in mind that Thorn only came on loan for a few months. Also every player gets injured from time to time.

Toulon changed their whole team a few weeks ago against Toulouse. They didn't even try to win. The French teams in the HEC don't try half the time.

 

[Teh Mite]

That is because only a select few can fight on the european and domestic simultaneously front for risk of burnout and relegation, the Top 14 is the toughest competition in the world bar none.

 

[welshglory]

Leinster's scrum and lineout didn't function, there were countless knock ons and they didn't get out of second gear. Still Exeter couldn't capitalize. Why are they even in the competition?

Leinster will need to up their game in a major way against the Scarlets. You can get away with it against below average opponents who raise their game like the Chiefs, but not against a team that supplies the Welsh backline.

I've come a bit late to the party. But...

You're the type of Leinster supporter i despise, sickening amount of arrogance.

 

[lucky number 7]

I've come a bit late to the party. But...

You're the type of Leinster supporter i despise, sickening amount of arrogance.

It's not arrogance..it's reality.

This Leinster team is the best and most successful Club side ever in European rugby..


And you took the bait.. Well done

 

[Teh Mite]

Dribbling brook forums . Com

 

[lucky number 7]

"Success breeds contempt"

LN7

 

[Groundhog]

"Success breeds contempt"

LN7

"So does having a ******* lion as your mascott" osulli mi PHD

 

[Draggs]

"Who the **** nicked my pint?"
Draggs

 

[j'nuh]

So if your in a league where you have to fight for a top six spot to get into the HEC, you don't deserve to be in it. I might be missing your point but at the moment I just can't see it.

I think he's saying that the teams which deserve to be in the Heineken Cup are the ones who have such quality in depth that they can play a second team in the domestic league and get into the top 6.

Premiership is too competitive for that to happen though. The difference in quality between the top and bottom teams in the Premiership is a lot more narrow than in the Pro12. It would be silly to play a second string against London Welsh/Sale, but it would be less silly to do it against Connacht/Zebre.

 

[Saintjay]

I think he's saying that the teams which deserve to be in the Heineken Cup are the ones who have such quality in depth that they can play a second team in the domestic league and get into the top 6.

Premiership is too competitive for that to happen though. The difference in quality between the top and bottom teams in the Premiership is a lot more narrow than in the Pro12. It would be silly to play a second string against London Welsh/Sale, but it would be less silly to do it against Connacht/Zebre.

I get that, still not seeing the point other than if your in a league with poor teams you have more of a right to be in it. Just on the fact you can roll out your second string every weekend and still make the top six.

 

[Saintjay]

I thought Toulouse and Leicester have a case to back for best euro team ever. Taking into account final appearances and domestic records.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Just on the fact you can roll out your second string every weekend and still make the top six.

You could equally argue that Leinster were able to rotate in the Heineken Cup last season and still win the competition. 25 different players started in last season's competition with a further 3 making appearances off the bench. 2 more players sat on the bench yet didn't make an appearance. That's the guts of 2 entire teams on Heineken Cup duty yet when Leinster do the same in the Pro 12, it's deemed a sign of that competition's weakness?

Getting away from the Leinster v Exeter game but surely rather than bemoan the Irish provinces supposed advantages, the Premiership should be trying to improve themselves rather than drag everyone else down. Complain about the salary cap? Remove it, you imposed it on yourselves. Complain about relegation leading to a fear factor and redundant style of rugby? Nobody believes Leicester, SA_racens, Northampton or Harlequins were worried about relegation at the start of this season or last.

 

[Saintjay]

You could equally argue that Leinster were able to rotate in the Heineken Cup last season and still win the competition. 25 different players started in last season's competition with a further 3 making appearances off the bench. 2 more players sat on the bench yet didn't make an appearance. That's the guts of 2 entire teams on Heineken Cup duty yet when Leinster do the same in the Pro 12, it's deemed a sign of that competition's weakness?

Getting away from the Leinster v Exeter game but surely rather than bemoan the Irish provinces supposed advantages, the Premiership should be trying to improve themselves rather than drag everyone else down. Complain about the salary cap? Remove it, you imposed it on yourselves. Complain about relegation leading to a fear factor and redundant style of rugby? Nobody believes Leicester, SA_racens, Northampton or Harlequins were worried about relegation at the start of this season or last.

Saints may not have been worried about relegation over the last few years. Yet in the last 7 they have come close once to relegation and have been relegated. The impact on money, and attendances still lives on in the memory of both the owners and supporters. Pro-12 teams do not have to worry about that at all. If you removed the threat of relegation you have a nothing to play for league and that in my view this would have an impact on clubs in all divisions.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Saints may not have been worried about relegation over the last few years. Yet in the last 7 they have come close once to relegation and have been relegated. The impact on money, and attendances still lives on in the memory of both the owners and supporters. Pro-12 teams do not have to worry about that at all. If you removed the threat of relegation you have a nothing to play for league and that in my view this would have an impact on clubs in all divisions.

What I'm trying to say is though if a team is worried about being relegated in the Aviva then what's the point of competing in the HCUP anyway?

 

[Teh Mite]

Getting away from the Leinster v Exeter game but surely rather than bemoan the Irish provinces supposed advantages, the Premiership should be trying to improve themselves rather than drag everyone else down. Complain about the salary cap? Remove it, you imposed it on yourselves. Complain about relegation leading to a fear factor and redundant style of rugby? Nobody believes Leicester, SA_racens, Northampton or Harlequins were worried about relegation at the start of this season or last.

The RFU imposed the salary cap, not the PRL. You don't complain to your local councillor about what the government is doing, you complain to your MP. In the case of this analogy however, the local MP is Rob Andrew - the very **** who's holding the clubs down so the RFU can maintain their gin supplies in their ivory tower.

And contrary to your whimsical comment, everybody knows that relegation is a real danger until it finally becomes a mathematical impossibility. From Welford Road to the Kassam, every fan will breath a sigh of relief if they cannot finish bottom. Which is still nothing whatsoever like playing your reserves all season - giving everyone else an easy game to rest their players in the process - and play the 1st team in the HEC just to assure a semi-final spot.

 

[Teh Mite]

What I'm trying to say is though if a team is worried about being relegated in the Aviva then what's the point of competing in the HCUP anyway?

What you're saying is retarded.

 

[lucky number 7]

You could equally argue that Leinster were able to rotate in the Heineken Cup last season and still win the competition. 25 different players started in last season's competition with a further 3 making appearances off the bench. 2 more players sat on the bench yet didn't make an appearance. That's the guts of 2 entire teams on Heineken Cup duty yet when Leinster do the same in the Pro 12, it's deemed a sign of that competition's weakness?

Getting away from the Leinster v Exeter game but surely rather than bemoan the Irish provinces supposed advantages, the Premiership should be trying to improve themselves rather than drag everyone else down. Complain about the salary cap? Remove it, you imposed it on yourselves. Complain about relegation leading to a fear factor and redundant style of rugby? Nobody believes Leicester, SA_racens, Northampton or Harlequins were worried about relegation at the start of this season or last.

Is everyone going to ignore this?Because I think this is a nice little point.A very nice one.

 

[Teh Mite]

Is everyone going to ignore this?Because I think this is a nice little point.A very nice one.

Lets pretend they were not grouped with Glasgow and Bath though...

 

[lucky number 7]

Lets pretend they were not grouped with Glasgow and Bath though...

Ah Bath..a good Premiership side Aquae siluis as the Romans entitled it...a fine side.

Leinster..A fine side.