Heineken Cup P5: Leinster vs Exeter Chiefs - 13/10/2012

[lynam1104]

Haters gna hate.

 

[lucky number 7]

last year vs clermont...

I suppose the ref is to be blamed for Brock James's shocking kicking vs us too a few years beforehand.

Yep the refs are all to blame..not Clearly being the best club side in Europe.

 

[barthelemy]

I am one who is pretty hard on referees but for anyone to think that there is corruption amongst the top (or even lower) level refs is having a laugh.

Deep down, I do not really believe that, nowadays, there are any who will consciously make a decision based on whether it will do one or the other team any good/harm - there are too many cameras and adjudicators marking them for that and just as the dirty player will be found out, so will the corrupt ref!

What I do believe is that there are few really good refs, some reasonable refs and many crap refs who may or may not improve and unfortunately, in making their decisions, they cannot maintain the consistency in those decisions throughout the match because they are out of their depths.

I'm not talking about corruption at all. I'm thinking more of cultural bias, about how culturally close are the British and Irish compare to the French. If France is playing against Wales, all the other british or irish nations will support Wales. Medias and people are supporting their british or irish brothers more than their French cousin. It is definitely natural. Look at how the french have been trashed for Thierry henry hand all over the british and irish islands, look at how the french have been trashed for the semi-final of the rugby world cup against wales all over the UK and Ireland. there is a cultural bias and I think that there has been clearly in the past few british referees that have had this cultural bias. If you remember the way France was being refing during the 5th nations tournament in the 80es or beginning of the 90es, there has been some shamefull matches clearly unfair because the referee was biased. to think that a referee could be naturally and culturally biased, Even more when the referee in Rugby is influencing the game greatly because a lot is down to his interpretation of the game, is much easier than to imagine that Armstrong had fridge full of blood all along his tour de France, less incredible somehow.

Nowadays it is less hapening but sometimes, you feel that the old habits are still around, especially in Hcup. I understand perfectly that brits and Irish do not see this that way but it does not make it false. there is no smoke without fire. I have an issue for example on how Castres has been refered on Friday evening during 20 minutes in the second half by Mr Small just when Castres started to wake up (even if I think that Castres would have lost his match anyway). I have no issue with the refing of the Harlequins-Biarritz match of yesterday evening, it was fair. I mean It is not about being a sore looser.

Anyway, I have not watched the match of yesterday so I can't really say anything about the refing between Leinster and Exeter

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm not talking about corruption at all. I'm thinking more of cultural bias, about how culturally close are the British and Irish compare to the French. If France is playing against Wales, all the other british or irish nations will support Wales. Medias and people are supporting their british or irish brothers more than their French cousin. It is definitely natural. Look at how the french have been trashed for Thierry henry hand all over the british and irish islands, look at how the french have been trashed for the semi-final of the rugby world cup against wales all over the UK and Ireland. there is a cultural bias and I think that there has been clearly in the past few british referees that have had this cultural bias. If you remember the way France was being refing during the 5th nations tournament in the 80es or beginning of the 90es, there has been some shamefull matches clearly unfair because the referee was biased. to think that a referee could be naturally and culturally biased, Even more when the referee in Rugby is influencing the game greatly because a lot is down to his interpretation of the game, is much easier than to imagine that Armstrong had fridge full of blood all along his tour de France, less incredible somehow.

Nowadays it is less hapening but sometimes, you feel that the old habits are still around, especially in Hcup. I understand perfectly that brits and Irish do not see this that way but it does not make it false. there is no smoke without fire. I have an issue for example on how Castres has been refered on Friday evening during 20 minutes in the second half by Mr Small just when Castres started to wake up (even if I think that Castres would have lost his match anyway). I have no issue with the refing of the Harlequins-Biarritz match of yesterday evening, it was fair. I mean It is not about being a sore looser.

Anyway, I have not watched the match of yesterday so I can't really say anything about the refing between Leinster and Exeter

You have no argument. Henry cheated full stop, he deserved the slating. Alain Rolland is an Irish referee who gave a correct decision, just because a few bitter Welsh fans cried about it means nothing. Leinster beat Clermont last year because we're class.

 

[barthelemy]

You have no argument. Henry cheated full stop, he deserved the slating. Alain Rolland is an Irish referee who gave a correct decision, just because a few bitter Welsh fans cried about it means nothing. Leinster beat Clermont last year because we're class.

Fine. I'm not talking about the red card for the semi-final, I'm talking about all the trashing about the French not being at their place in the final...I have not seen any big trashing on some Germans or italian forums or medias for the Thierry henry's hand funny huh ?

 

[Feicarsinn]

I'm not talking about corruption at all. I'm thinking more of cultural bias, about how culturally close are the British and Irish compare to the French. If France is playing against Wales, all the other british or irish nations will support Wales. Medias and people are supporting their british or irish brothers more than their French cousin. It is definitely natural. Look at how the french have been trashed for Thierry henry hand all over the british and irish islands, look at how the french have been trashed for the semi-final of the rugby world cup against wales all over the UK and Ireland. there is a cultural bias and I think that there has been clearly in the past few british referees that have had this cultural bias. If you remember the way France was being refing during the 5th nations tournament in the 80es or beginning of the 90es, there has been some shamefull matches clearly unfair because the referee was biased. to think that a referee could be naturally and culturally biased, Even more when the referee in Rugby is influencing the game greatly because a lot is down to his interpretation of the game, is much easier than to imagine that Armstrong had fridge full of blood all along his tour de France, less incredible somehow.

Nowadays it is less hapening but sometimes, you feel that the old habits are still around, especially in Hcup. I understand perfectly that brits and Irish do not see this that way but it does not make it false. there is no smoke without fire. I have an issue for example on how Castres has been refered on Friday evening during 20 minutes in the second half by Mr Small just when Castres started to wake up (even if I think that Castres would have lost his match anyway). I have no issue with the refing of the Harlequins-Biarritz match of yesterday evening, it was fair. I mean It is not about being a sore looser.

Anyway, I have not watched the match of yesterday so I can't really say anything about the refing between Leinster and Exeter

What a load of tripe. I regularly support France against the other home nations sides and though Rolland made the right call in the semi final.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

No, Germans and Italians aren't very interested in Irish football. (Germany showed why on Friday)
France were lucky to get to the final but they did deserve it for winning their matches but I can't remember anyone apart from the Welsh saying otherwise.

 

[barthelemy]

What a load of tripe. I regularly support France against the other home nations sides and though Rolland made the right call in the semi final.

I did not say everybody, I said there is an inclination to this...a natural inclination. I know also that a lot of welsh/irish or scottish supporters will support France against England, which is understandable as well.

 

[Tony Manx]

I can sympathise with your view but still feel that with the money now paid to the top refs, in the British Isles (BI) anyway, they are not likely to show bias as they would find themselves marked down and eventually out of work.

I see a big difference in the number of penalties suffered by the French teams when they take part in the H/Amlin Cup but really do feel that this is down to the very poor general quality, improving by the way, of the French refs that the French players are used to. This has been recognised by the introduction of BI refs to the Top 14 games in the week prior to the H Cup....for what use that is!!

The lower quality leads to players in France getting away with all sorts of things, including seeing refs influenced by the crowd reaction to a much larger extent, in the Top 14 than when they come up against BI refs. This leads them and the supporters to feel that the BI refs are against them when in reality they are just doing their jobs better than their French counterparts....

This is a argument with no defined result and comes down to opinion and that is inevitably fuelled by one's nationality but would add that I am not from the major countries in the BI and spend most of my time watching rugby in France...................

 

[barthelemy]

No, Germans and Italians aren't very interested in Irish football. (Germany showed why on Friday)

This is exactly my point, there is closer relation between GB and Ireland, a cultural relationship that makes people kind of backing up each other, subcounsciounsly or counsciously.

France were lucky to get to the final but they did deserve it for winning their matches but I can't remember anyone apart from the Welsh saying otherwise.

You have short memory.

Anyway sorry to have started this discussion, it won't go anywhere. For me it is just facts finally. for others it is sore loosing.

 

[barthelemy]

I can sympathise with your view but still feel that with the money now paid to the top refs, in the British Isles (BI) anyway, they are not likely to show bias as they would find themselves marked down and eventually out of work.

I see a big difference in the number of penalties suffered by the French teams when they take part in the H/Amlin Cup but really do feel that this is down to the very poor general quality, improving by the way, of the French refs that the French players are used to. This has been recognised by the introduction of BI refs to the Top 14 games in the week prior to the H Cup....for what use that is!!

The lower quality leads to players in France getting away with all sorts of things, including seeing refs influenced by the crowd reaction to a much larger extent, in the Top 14 than when they come up against BI refs. This leads them and the supporters to feel that the BI refs are against them when in reality they are just doing their jobs better than their French counterparts....

This is a argument with no defined result and comes down to opinion and that is inevitably fuelled by one's nationality but would add that I am not from the major countries in the BI and spend most of my time watching rugby in France...................

I can see a point in what you say. There are different style of games between GB and France and there are definitely some misunderstanding about rules and what you can and cannot do. but that does not explain some very shamefull matches that have occured in the past. that does not explain the frustration that french supporters are feeling about some Hcup matches.

Referees are very professional, no doubt about this but still they are human and still rugby is a sport where the referee have a great say on the result of a match.

The comparison between the french referees and the british referees is BS, from my point of view. IF you have a link with serious arguments for this, I'm highly interested.

 

[Amiga500]

I have an issue for example on how Castres has been refered on Friday evening during 20 minutes in the second half by Mr Small just when Castres started to wake up (even if I think that Castres would have lost his match anyway).

For what?

Not penalising Castres for consistently going after our scrum half in rucks?

Not penalising Castres for collapsing our maul a couple of metres off their line?


What part of his refereeing did you disagree with?

 

[Tony Manx]

Thought Small had a good game actually...............!

 

[SelimNiai]

Is it a coincidence that a Frenchman is crying bias when a French team loses.

I think not.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Yes, the French posters on this board have have gotten a bit of a reputation for crying wolf.

 

[Tony Manx]

Lay off them.....we do not have many and would like loads more!! Only expressing their deep felt opinions.................!!

 

[Hill-Back-Dallaglio]

In a weekend where the Aviva Premiership demonstrated itself to be the best league in Europe, this match has to stand out. If a very average Premiership side can push the European Champions so hard at home (let's cut to the chase, if the ref had played it fairly they would have won) you know the league is a top competition.

 

[lucky number 7]

The same average side who drubbed the Premiership champions by 20 pts a wee while back ?

 

[Hill-Back-Dallaglio]

Same side that finished 5th last season and almost no international class.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

In a weekend where the Aviva Premiership demonstrated itself to be the best league in Europe, this match has to stand out. If a very average Premiership side can push the European Champions so hard at home (let's cut to the chase, if the ref had played it fairly they would have won) you know the league is a top competition.

Really? Explain Leinster - Bath, 52 - 27, Ulster - Leicster, 41 - 7, Connacht - Harlequins 9 - 8, Munster - Northampton (at home) 51 - 36, Edinburgh - London Irish, 34 - 11.
Maybe apart from the Leinster game, all of those games beforehand I bet you would have said the English side would dominate - not quite. I could go on with more examples.
Currently there's no way you could say the Aviva is the best league in Europe.