Discussion in 'European Champions & Challenge Cup' started by Captain Morgan, Mar 30, 2008.
Oooh my oooh my. Let us sit back and watch those New Zealand heads explode as they try and reconcile their inbred hatred of NH Club rugby with their love of an all time All Black legend.
I did put this on the SH S14 board with a link to here, to save me entering the whole thing up again and to get one discussion going at a time involving SH Aand NH board users but it was removed.
I like how frank Marshall is about the whole subject. Especially when he says it's basically like NZ, Aus and SA play each other for 6 months of the year. I've always thought that the players must find it tedious at times.
I'm gonna be biased when i say that the HEC is better, becuase i vest so much interest in the Ospreys and all the other Welsh regions and having the english, french and italian clubs here always adds that bit of spice to the season - and you can guarantee and increse in the numbers at the grounds for a HC tie.
Who wouldn't want to see your team playing against the likes of Leinster, Munster, Toulouse, Stade Francais, Biarritz, Leicester, Wasps...i mean, the list just goes in.
And then given the crown of Europe with a big cheque at the end is certainly a great incentive offering great bragging rights!
I wouldn't want the HEC to change at all.
As a sincere query, I wonder if the SH guys would like to see a change to their routined club fixtures - throw something different into the works than what they're getting at the moment.
I really fail too see how this proves anything? Michilak is currently waxing sweet lyrical love over the Super 14, maybe it's just a case of stroking the hand that is giving you that nice fat pay cheque?
Especially when you consider Marshall has had a vendetta against the NZRFU ever since he left seemingly because they didn't give him a parade through Christchurch and a big statue in Wellington, I don't really know why though, he was trash ever since the latter half of 2003 onwards and was lucky to play as much as he did. And lol at love of "All time All Black legend." Outside of the Red and Black hicks Marshall is hardly a favourite.
Yet another constructive argument by Ripper.
Oh wait, no that's just him bitching again.
I'm not even sure why I'm waiting for a constructive response from you...
RC, thats the only response he can come up with without sounding like he is either agreeing or disagreeing with the all black great. I think he means that the whole predicament that this whole thread has put him in is pathetic.
I don't see how the first post wasn't constructive. Isn't it relevant to consider the possibilty that maybe Marshall, a guy who has a running vendetta against his old bosses because they didn't give him a big retirement send off when he left 4 games into a 12 test season is now bad mouthing their product?
And funnily enough, like I said, Michalak is going on about how great the Super 14 is, so what makes what Marshall say's (a guy who also want's to make scrums league style and have international games played only indoors - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtm...03/srjmar06.xml ) gospel and definate proof that the HEC is the greatest thing since the 5 point try?
Must be why he signed for Leeds and then whored himself to the highest bidder when he abandoned ship. And correct me if i'm wrong, but he hasn't played a HEC in a couple of months right? So ever since than he's been playing Mangers League and that's it... hardly a diet of World Class competition.
Ok, I am a Justin Marshall fan from way back and was sad to see him go, even though he wasnt at his best, when he went.
Though he does bring up an interesting point. The Super 14 is a bit stale and needs a revamp. Bringing in a pools comp and a knockout afterwards would be awesome for the game. Maybe even bringing in some of the NH teams for it as an addition to the Super 14 would be a good idea.
But also Ripper has his points as well, as much as i woudl hate to say it. this article does smell a bit of trying to talk up the game he is playing and trying to downplay the super 14 as well. Its all about him trying to tell you how excitied he is about playing in the HC more than anything else. and its good to see someone who has played rugby for as long as he has to be still enjoying it.
What are you talking about? I'm obviously flat out disagreeing with the so called "All Black Great" (Which he is not - All Black very good... yes... great... no - he wouldn't have even been a regular fixture in the side if Bachop hadn't gone to Japan after 95).
im 100% with ripper on this one. ever since justin left for leeds, hes done nothing but bitch and moan about rival scrum halfs, all blacks, all black coaches, super 14, npc. the guys a joke. GET OVER IT!!!
imo there is 3 main reasons for players moving to europe (AND JAPAN DONT FORGET) is:
1)the lifestyle. look at reihana in particular. turning down a all blacks sport to come back. not just lifestyle, but younger players, like glen jackson go for the money. some players would simply rather have more money to provide for their family, guareenteed money, unlike being a professional rugby player in nz
2)OE. luke mcalister. troy flavel. sure they picked up some dosh and gained a bit of experiance, but change in pace, diffrent people. away from mum and dad for a year or two. sure you can say "err... world cup france, all black tours." but touring and living are 2 completely diffrent things.
3)retirement. yes the old "northern grandpa rugby" is a reality. unlike steriotypes of it being only old players (see points one and two) but more of a combination of the prior two. if you know you will not ever make the all blacks again (ala justin marshall, carlos spencer, paul tito) then, assuming that you dont have the responcibility of holding a team togeather (long serving naki lock tito would have been torn to leave) then why not go over seas to finnish your carrer? i would. its not a bad thing by any means.
and going on about repetitiveness - weve recently added 2 teams, force in particualar are incredibly good fun to watch. the cheifs of late are playing quite well. explosive plays by wellington. auckland and cantubury to continue to dominate? the npc has just been revamped, and will be again soon. but all in all, in traveling area of competitive teams, we ONLY HAVE NZ, OZ, SA. we cant have a 6 nations. simple. if we had a 6 nations of the same radius of the european one, we would have nz sa and oz beating tailand, vietnam and nambia by 100pts at least. yes you can argue that the financial bomb of island nations should be included. and argentina will be joining us over the next couple of years. but really, marshall, sit down. be quiet. your not the player you once were. you wont be missed. no-one is unexpendable.
Ripper and Sambad all made very good points and i am in agreement with them lol Justin did go sour when he was left at home during that end of year tour which Byron became no.1 half back.
Money makes you say things lol Its like real fat people losing all that weight and then becoming cocky then praising the product that got them there (like that homo from the bow flex infomercial, the "i dont see them with their shirts off on t.v" guy!).
Maybe Justin is bitter, but maybe the NH is catching up.
Because they lure in big players from the SH with big pay cheques, guys like Jack,Marshall and Gear. Guys that are a bit past it but are still able to cut it in NH. However i would say there is no doubt the HC is a better competition mainly due to the uncertainty that firstly surrounds who will make the competition and secondly the draw for the group. The attacking rugby is much better in SH, but the HC is the better competition.
Those 2 minutes when the draws take place must the highlight of the season
Sambad makes some really good points.
It's really interesting to know that the SH are content with their competitions, I adore watching my team play against the best Europe has to offer, but there is still the fact that all SH folks will have a strong interest with the SH teams and competitions. And if the competitions are ever-changing, as we are being told they are, then this can only serve as a refreshment and prove that SH competitions won't go stale.
Are most SH folk glad to see the emergence of Argentina, which consequently means that they'll probably be making an appearence and an addition to the tri nations. I mean, are the viewing figures really going down on these competitions? Will this be a welcome change to the Tri-Nations as it is right now?
South Africa has been Argentinas closest rugby allie for awhile now, and strengthening that relationship with the Pumas by including them in SANZAR comps would be wonderful.
However logistics are a worry though and they need to sort out their domestic league.
This is a bit off topic though and has been covered extensively in other threads already, namely the thread about the Pumas joining the Tri Nations (the title is named to that effect).
the thing is with the domestic competitons is like what i said before. the hec has twice as many countrys, with going on 4 fold more population. to get the same amount of teams with (essencially the same amount of "uncertanty" to the game, then you would have to get the npc vs arc vs currie cup. simple fact is, who in their right mind would watch manawatu vs wollongong? no-one. super 14 optimises tv ratings, and theres simply is not enough rugby playing financially capable countrys in the area. you can go on until the cows come home about pools, or even doing what the nrl has and have a home and away game against each team but really, you have to accept wc year to be a low rating rugby year, because it starts in early feb, and continues until late november. people are sick of rugby. even i was. now i love it again.
and sure you can say that the competition is better in the north, the games are better in the south, but lets face it. the super 14 is far superior to the hec, and do you want me to bold it or make it text size 30435? GIVEN THE SITUATION THAT WE ARE IN. europe = more money more players, more teams. but clearly, given the resourses that they have, this shouldnt even be a topic. given the resorces that the north have, the hec should **** all over the super 14. but fact: it doesnt. fact: chances are alot of people will think the opposite.
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