[June Tests 2018: 3rd Test] South Africa vs. England (23/06/2018)

[Vieux Talonneur]

Worth noting it's also the first game not at altitude, not that I think England have shown any fatigue towards the end of the games.

Points fatigue generally kicks in between the 12th and 25th minutes though.

Doubt you'd need to break the bank for Edwards

Well, what are they waiting for then?

I'll be really annoyed if the likes of Isiekwe, Loz and Woodward don't get a proper look in this week. Can Shields play 8?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

TBH unless the team mentality is sorted, it doesn't matter who we put out. There is no cohesion in the team and we lose our nerve the second our opponents get the ball. The team constantly look terrified of committing to anything in defence and thus end up doing nothing.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Points fatigue generally kicks in between the 12th and 25th minutes though.



Well, what are they waiting for then?

I'll be really annoyed if the likes of Isiekwe, Loz and Woodward don't get a proper look in this week. Can Shields play 8?

He's played a fair bit there for the Hurricances but it really isn't his position. Not much of a ball carrier.

 

[ncurd]

TBH unless the team mentality is sorted, it doesn't matter who we put out. There is no cohesion in the team and we lose our nerve the second our opponents get the ball. The team constantly look terrified of committing to anything in defence and thus end up doing nothing.

This is where I'm at the players aren't the problem its the way they are being coached. Lets be honest on top form the team we put out on Saturday was excellent barring the odd change here or there the starting 15 could be very close to what we what we put out at the world cup.

We'll learn bugger all with a **** it team or whatever, we need to go back to the drawing board and sort **** out.

Honestly it doesn't surprise me haven't sorted this out since the 6 nations because there just hasn't been the time, give the players a good rest for the summer and start working on it for the AI's and 6 nations. Its the only way forward.

Also get some coaches in and a sport psychologist. Youngs was one thing its speaks to the problem but he's not doing it on the pitch Hughes and Mako though.....well its gotten to this stage.



The 1 minuite 10 mark with MJ's reaction is the level England are now. High penalty count spoken about every week with petty not accomplishing anything infractions being committed.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ask Lancaster how he turned England around from always infringing under MJ to being one of the more disciplined sides.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ask Lancaster how he turned England around from always infringing under MJ to being one of the more disciplined sides.

Disciplined, but not very successful.

I don't mind players living on the edge, taking the occasional calculated risk. McCaw and Back made whole careers out of it. But I object to outright stupidity. And I really object to repeated stupidity.

Assuming there's not a national shortage of grey matter, what's the root cause of stupidity? Almost certainly a reaction to the pressure that comes with not winning. Viscous circle.

TCUP was SCW's great mantra. As valid now as then. Maybe he should come back as a TCUP coach and bring St Jonny with him as a scoreboard pressure consultant.

 

[ratsapprentice]

He's played a fair bit there for the Hurricances but it really isn't his position. Not much of a ball carrier.

I wouldn't say that at all.

He's just not a metre-eater... not all 8's are contact monsters. Kieran Ried wouldn't be a particularly good carrier by that standard.

 

[TRF_heineken]

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/lions-declare-whiteley-marx-ready-for-action-20180618

So Warren Whiteley and Malcolm Marx have been declared fit by the Lions Rugby Union. The question is will Rassie ask them to join the Boks in Cape Town???

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I wouldn't say that at all.

He's just not a metre-eater... not all 8's are contact monsters. Kieran Ried wouldn't be a particularly good carrier by that standard.

Nor Parisse nor Faletau nor was Heaslip. And TBH I wonder whether Binny's brick wall act is half the reason he's become so injury prone. Out of choice I'd leave that sort of stuff to my front 5 leaving scope in the back row for more heads up "footballers".

With Hughes out of form / unfit I was just wondering whether Shields could go 8 with Simmonds and Curry on the flanks. We're not going to out muscle them, so nothing to lose by trying a more athletic approach.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I reckon Lancaster is the outstanding candidate to replace Jones when he does go. Especially if Leinster continue their success, he's been a lot more ruthless this season than last which was also his weakness with England.

(Not entirely on topic but I saw him mentioned and... @Tigs Man)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I reckon Lancaster is the outstanding candidate to replace Jones when he does go. Especially if Leinster continue their success, he's been a lot more ruthless this season than last which was also his weakness with England.

(Not entirely on topic but I saw him mentioned and... @Tigs Man)

Would need a complete overhaul of the upper echelons of the RFU for that to happen

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Would need a complete overhaul of the upper echelons of the RFU for that to happen

Yeah I'm aware of that and reckon he'll probably get a role in the Irish set up,I just think he should be heavily considered. A guy with international experience, in England no less, with well publicised knowledge of where he went wrong as well as evidence he's learnt from it and improved isn't something to disregard.

"Poaching" Farrell could also be fruitful but I think you need a very intelligent offensive mind to go with him as well as having the same problems as Lanc with the added difficulty that he's very much settled in Dublin. If McCall is also considered we could have a situation where Irish coach(es) are coaching England and vice versa past 2019/21 which would be gas, no one could win or lose!

Again this is all pretty fanciful and stemming from my disliking of Jones and enjoying bad things happening to him, strictly in rugby terms!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Would need a complete overhaul of the upper echelons of the RFU for that to happen

He's proven, again, that he can coach. Would be happy to have him back on board as a senior coach or whatever. But not as the head honcho, play to his strengths and let him be the training ground puppet master, with someone else fronting all the media stuff and having ultimate accountability. If he got the top job for a second time there would be a ridiculous amount of pressure on him and it would be odds on a disaster waiting to happen. At the very least let him go and coach Wales or somewhere first to see if he's ready.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd get behind Dean Ryan as manager and Lancaster as senior coach.

 

[Mumbles119]

Deano as head honcho, and Lancaster as training ground puppet master

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I reckon Lancaster is the outstanding candidate to replace Jones when he does go. Especially if Leinster continue their success, he's been a lot more ruthless this season than last which was also his weakness with England.

(Not entirely on topic but I saw him mentioned and... @Tigs Man)

Maybe as head of development crap, but honestly I would change my allegiance to Japan full time if Lancaster became Head Coach.


would take Faz though.

 

[Pom in Exile]

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/lions-declare-whiteley-marx-ready-for-action-20180618

So Warren Whiteley and Malcolm Marx have been declared fit by the Lions Rugby Union. The question is will Rassie ask them to join the Boks in Cape Town???

I bloody hope not, especially not Marx.

 

[Triple Exe]

TBH unless the team mentality is sorted, it doesn't matter who we put out. There is no cohesion in the team and we lose our nerve the second our opponents get the ball. The team constantly look terrified of committing to anything in defence and thus end up doing nothing.

Exactly. The backline has looked pretty good when given decent ball. We just need to retain/regain possession to make use of it.

 

[higgik]

For me (**** It team)

1. Marler
2. Singleton (he seems really fast from what ive seen and WHY TF NOT)
3. Sinks
4. Isiekwe
5. Launch
6. Shields
7. Curry
8. Simmonds
9. Spencer
10. Faz
11. Earle
12. Loz
13. Daly
14. May
15. Woodward

16. George
17. Hepburn
18. Williams
19. Itoje
20. Wilson
21. Robson
22. Slade
23. Brown (just to sure it up if it goes ***s up)


THIS, MR JONES, IS HOW YOU STRUCTURE A BENCH! YOU SEEM TO HAVE FORGOTTEN

1. Marler
2. LCD
3. Williams
4. Isiekwe
5. Launchbury
6. Wilson
7. Simmonds
8. Shields
9. Spencer
10. Faz
11. May
12. ????
13. Lozowski
14. Brown
15. Daly

I think that not having Manu or Te'o and Devoto's lack of form has really hurt the centres.

Playing Loz or Slade at OC would give a bit more space for the playmakers to read the game and for the runners to see the best running lines.

When all fit
1. Mako
2. George
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Launchbury
6. Shields
7. Simmonds
8. Billy
9. Spencer
10. Faz
11. May
12. Te'o
13. Loz
14. Nowell
15. Daly

16. LCD
17. Hepburn
18. Sinckler
19. Itoje
20. Underhill
21. Care
22. Cipriani
23. Earle

 

[saulan]

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/lions-declare-whiteley-marx-ready-for-action-20180618

So Warren Whiteley and Malcolm Marx have been declared fit by the Lions Rugby Union. The question is will Rassie ask them to join the Boks in Cape Town???

I highly doubt it, he has made a couple of comments now about wanting to reward the players who have been a part of the process throughout. Rushing those guys in on a Tuesday with no experience on a training field with Rassie 4 days at most before the final test seems unlikely. I'm sure for the Rugby Championship though.