• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

There is also a rumor that I will be the next coach ... oh wait .. XD

TRF_heineken said:
Man that's the pipe dream...

Early rumours are that Nienaber will be promoted to Head Coach. There's also another rumour building up about Johan van Graan.... Although I think that one is a bit too far fetched...
Click to expand...
 
Yoshimitsu said:
However, that's not where the issue is. When England are on the front foot and carrying Youngs is the primary reason in my opinion that we slow down. There are occasions where quick ball to a running player would allow a dominant collision at the gain-line but for whatever reason Youngs does not deliver the ball (sometimes he's not even there to do so). He waits until he is happy he can deliver the pass but by doing so he concedes fractions of seconds for a defensive reset. Those moments are critical in a game of well drilled defences. By killing momentum we're then dealing with slower ball from which to attack with, that usually leaves us with less options and favours conceding possession via kicking. There are clear examples involving Sinckler, Mako Vunipola and Billy Vunipola in the win against New Zealand.
Click to expand...

''There are occaisions...' sums it up for me. If Youngs delivered perfect service within a second at 99/100 rucks the discussion here would be on the 1 that he didn't.

My position is: I think the criticisim of Youngs is massively overplayed, because there is madly high expectations and an assumption that every other scrum half in England would do better. Every slowed ruck is assumed to be his fault. It's a mixture of confirmation bias and your standard internet pile-on.

Just look at the 'england squad' thread where people are naming every bloke to wear a 9 in the last month as better than him. Or earlier in the world cup when Heinz, a man with two caps and none in major competitive matches, was being talked about as having to start. It's a witch hunt.
 
Goodey said:
''There are occaisions...' sums it up for me. If Youngs delivered perfect service within a second at 99/100 rucks the discussion here would be on the 1 that he didn't.

My position is: I think the criticisim of Youngs is massively overplayed, because there is madly high expectations and an assumption that every other scrum half in England would do better. Every slowed ruck is assumed to be his fault. It's a mixture of confirmation bias and your standard internet pile-on.

Just look at the 'england squad' thread where people are naming every bloke to wear a 9 in the last month as better than him. Or earlier in the world cup when Heinz, a man with two caps and none in major competitive matches, was being talked about as having to start. It's a witch hunt.
Click to expand...

Every other scrumhalf in England that would do better is playing for the Springboks. And one of them isn't playing the final...
 
Goodey said:
''There are occaisions...' sums it up for me. If Youngs delivered perfect service within a second at 99/100 rucks the discussion here would be on the 1 that he didn't.

My position is: I think the criticisim of Youngs is massively overplayed, because there is madly high expectations and an assumption that every other scrum half in England would do better. Every slowed ruck is assumed to be his fault. It's a mixture of confirmation bias and your standard internet pile-on.

Just look at the 'england squad' thread where people are naming every bloke to wear a 9 in the last month as better than him. Or earlier in the world cup when Heinz, a man with two caps and none in major competitive matches, was being talked about as having to start. It's a witch hunt.
Click to expand...

I think The criticism of Young's is massively over the top - he has had a decent World Cup so far and you can't say Heinz has been better - In any case scrum half is probably the position where we have the least depth - Care's form has tailed off, Robson is too inconsistent , and I think that Spencer has potential and is the right replacement call . But Young's is the best guy we have right now
 
TRF_heineken said:
Every other scrumhalf in England that would do better is playing for the Springboks. And one of them isn't playing the final...
Click to expand...
To be fair Spencer was comfortably the best English 9 in the league this season,
In terms of the premiership it probably went Cobus, Spencer, Faf/Heinz - though there wasn't much between Spencer/Cobus at all (depends how much you weight individual brilliance vs controlling a side to win the league/champions cup double).
 
H
Goodey said:
Anyone who thinks Youngs is 'glacial' needs to rewatch the build up to England's try last week.

Also have a look at how Youngs takes the ball off the back of the maul dynamically compared to Heinz who waits for it to drop and then is forced to kick against his strength.
Click to expand...
hes really improved in this tournament. Think people are giving him the Ford treatment and punishing him for past discretions. I'll put my hand up and admit to doing it. Glad to see him come good though.
 
Historically, Youngs has always been capable of looking like the best SH in the world. He's also always been capable of looking like a worse SH than me.
His problems are typically exaggerated when he has to be a play-maker - asking him to make the tactical decisions puts him in 2 minds, and he dithers, becomes slow to get to the ball, and slow to get it away once he is there - which puts his passing - often a little ropey, if not often terrible - under even more pressure. When he just does, without thinking and without second guessing himself, he's a far better player IMO.

Against NZ, on first viewing, he looked like he was having a poor day at the office - not terrible, but poor; and his history meant that when someone else played SH, or he made a dodgy pass or decision - it really stood out in comparison to everyone else who was raising their game for the occasion. His history of being slow, indecisive and often a bit crap, meant that people (myself included) went OTT in criticising him, as we saw history repeating itself.
On second viewing, it looked like it was a tactic that he wouldn't always be the man getting the ball away - whoever was in the best position to put speed on the ball would do it - and with 2 FHs on the pitch, you can do that a bit more, as the main reason you don't want the FH doing that, is that they've no FH to pass to. So that entirely invalidated the biggest criticism people had of him during that game. But quite honestly, most people needed a second watch, and calmer emotions to see that.

He was still pretty anonymous; but anonymous in a 5-6/10 way - not anonymous-with-mistakes in a 3-4/10 way that it seemed watching live.
Same goes with Faz during that match - he was anonymous, in that he didn't nothing much of either highlight or lowlight - and because I wasn't noticing him, I kinda assumed he was having a poor-but-not-terrible game due to my personal bias. I was mentally giving him a 4/10. He wasn't though, he was going around being a decent enough IC, playing an IC game with IC duties, and quietly getting on with things; bumping him up to a 6/10 - which his "leadership" qualities bump up further to a 7/10.
 
The question puts both 'I'm supporting SA' and 'I don't mind/care who wins' in the same category, 'no'. So if you did get that from a Scottish/Welsh website it's actually pretty sporting towards England.
 
The Alpha Bro said:
The poll here actually reads like this:
"Are you supporting England?"

1. "Yes"
2. "No, but I'll be sound about it"
3. "Too busy sourcing cyanide pills to watch"
Click to expand...

I don't think there's enough cyanide in all of Ireland to meet that demand.

But we don't mind. For the first and last time ever, I can say that we've got BOD :D
 
Thursday - Re-watch full NZ match again & Extended highlights of all other games
Friday - 2003 DVD will get a full run out. Possibly watch the final in it's entirety.
Saturday - Building Jerusalem (again) probably just after my scheduled panic/nervous wake time of 5.45am.

I'm proper excited :cool:
 
MarkyH said:
Thursday - Re-watch full NZ match again & Extended highlights of all other games
Friday - 2003 DVD will get a full run out. Possibly watch the final in it's entirety.
Saturday - Building Jerusalem (again) probably just after my scheduled panic/nervous wake time of 5.45am.

I'm proper excited :cool:
Click to expand...

I'm doing something similar. Tonight after work I'm going to watch the 1995 World Cup final and the 1999 World Cup match against England where Jannie De Beer drop goaled 5 times.

Skip the entire 2003 WC

Tomorrow, 2007 pool game and final against England

Might even watch the movie Invictus if I struggle to sleep.
 
MarkyH said:
Thursday - Re-watch full NZ match again & Extended highlights of all other games
Friday - 2003 DVD will get a full run out. Possibly watch the final in it's entirety.
Saturday - Building Jerusalem (again) probably just after my scheduled panic/nervous wake time of 5.45am.

I'm proper excited :cool:
Click to expand...

Skip Friday I would.
 

Similar threads

TRF_Olyy
[RWC2023 SF2] England vs South Africa (21/10/2023)
68 69 70
Replies
1K
Views
35K
Don't Skip Leg Day
Don't Skip Leg Day
TRF_Olyy
South Africa vs New Zealand
8 9 10
Replies
197
Views
7K
Kiwiwomble
Kiwiwomble
TRF_Olyy
[RWC2023] South Africa vs Tonga (01/10/2023)
3 4 5
Replies
99
Views
3K
Mrs. Peter Quinn
Mrs. Peter Quinn
saulan
[RWC2023] South Africa vs Ireland (23/09/2023)
46 47 48
Replies
954
Views
25K
Ferrari333SP
Ferrari333SP
TRF_Olyy
  • Locked
[RWC2023 QF4] France vs South Africa (15/10/2023)
46 47 48
Replies
955
Views
28K
TRF_Olyy
TRF_Olyy

Latest posts

Top