[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

[TRF_heineken]

Have the Boks announced their lineup yet?

Don't they normally put their team out a few days before they are required to?

The team will be announced tomorrow after their last field training session. Partly because they want to see if Cheslin is completely 100%.

Rassie said already on Monday that he'll name his team on Thursday. So there really isn't something sinister going on.

He also mentioned that it would be mostly the same 23 that played against Wales, with only Kolbe coming in.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's actually very simple Watson/May have been fit except the last game and even Nowell was relatively okay.

Big Joe has just been surplus to requirements so far.

Guess so, but still surprised we haven't seen more of him from the bench.

Watson in particular has been outstanding. Wonder if he can also play 15.

 

[Jimbo]

Too much to respond to on here so forgive me for simply generalizing but you English blokes can't say (think its was @ncurd)
I'll accept England are favorites. I give it 60/40. I still maintain SA has had better prep and that England hasn't been tested.

Wow this statement, so let's get the facts here SA have for the most part done enough without looking convincing, loosing their opening game which was pretty meaningless in terms of pool progression, England Dominate the same team in do or die knockout Rugby with a real 80 minute performance, NZ are the one team that are not beaten until the final play, they have a tendency to really turn a result around at the death and did throw everything at England towards the End but England found a way to prevent it, played a fairly convincing semi quarter against a mixed bag AZ team but none of this is good preparation yet SA win by a single pen in what was possibly the biggest snore fest in the history of semi finals against a depleted Non adventures Wales, yes this is the perfect prep, can you see any flaws in this logic?

 

[mustardcharlie]

The talk all seems to be about Joe, May and Mac. What about Watto? No mention given to him. I'm a big fan but again he's not the best in defence. It will be solidity closer to the scrum that counts. I'd be more than happy if EJ started with the same team. Eng must at least hold their own in the front 5. That goes for the replacements as well. I believe our back row are the best in the world.

 

[Scotty]

Wierdly i was more confident of beating NZ than SA and im not sure why. Its not because its the final but vs NZ as the week went on i got more confident but vs SA i dont know what it is that im worried about. Maybe that i new NZ were going to run it or attack the lineout and i believe our physical defence could handle it. SA i worry they have i seperate gameplan we havnt seen.

Especially as since they lost their first game they have beat 4 tier 2 and a stuggling Wales. For most of it they could have been holding back. They have barely used kolbe in attack and we can end up defending narrow so bring him into play more and reinach has barely been used but we well above Janties and runs the best support lines ive seen and is rapid.

Surly would have used him in the semis if they were going too but still.

 

[Scotty]

On who starts on the wing without nowell and may...watson daly slade, keeps the playmaker 15 alive and they will run it the same sort of way. At 60 min go to ford/faz Manu slade. And move daly to 15 and joe to the wing

 

[TheOvalBall]

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Wierdly i was more confident of beating NZ than SA and im not sure why. Its not because its the final but vs NZ as the week went on i got more confident but vs SA i dont know what it is that im worried about. Maybe that i new NZ were going to run it or attack the lineout and i believe our physical defence could handle it. SA i worry they have i seperate gameplan we havnt seen.

Especially as since they lost their first game they have beat 4 tier 2 and a stuggling Wales. For most of it they could have been holding back. They have barely used kolbe in attack and we can end up defending narrow so bring him into play more and reinach has barely been used but we well above Janties and runs the best support lines ive seen and is rapid.

Surly would have used him in the semis if they were going too but still.

My main fear is what other coaches have been saying, that England have played their final. If England had a history of being consistent I'd be feeling ok but the fact that numerous times they have completely switched off when they have thought the job is done has been worrying. They could walk onto the pitch thinking they already have the cup and it could be a repeat of the Scotland 2nd half. Even against NZ they were forcing stupid passes at times and I really hope they don't go out there trying to play some stupid champagne rugby and forget everything that got them to the final in the first place. I'd hope that this isn't the case as they brought in a sports psychologist and so far it seems to have done the trick. I don't fear SA being too much for us, I fear us just not turning up and doing stupid **** to force the game when it simply isn't needed.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

My main fear is what other coaches have been saying, that England have played their final. If England had a history of being consistent I'd be feeling ok but the fact that numerous times they have completely switched off when they have thought the job is done has been worrying. They could walk onto the pitch thinking they already have the cup and it could be a repeat of the Scotland 2nd half. Even against NZ they were forcing stupid passes at times and I really hope they don't go out there trying to play some stupid champagne rugby and forget everything that got them to the final in the first place. I'd hope that this isn't the case as they brought in a sports psychologist and so far it seems to have done the trick. I don't fear SA being too much for us, I fear us just not turning up and doing stupid **** to force the game when it simply isn't needed.

All of this. It started in, say, 2007 when we started to display how willing we were to underestimate opposition despite how poor we were, and snowballed with the Johnson and (particularly) Lancaster years when selection went totally nuts - see Burgess in a desperate effort to fix a shitshow at 12, even though Burrell was decent, at least, until his confidence was carpetbombed by that decision.)(Let's ignore the Hape/Noon thing)

Eddie has shown limited signs of breaking that mould as amply demonstrated by the Wales and Scotland games this year when we simply switched off. I'm bricking this match, and hard. Soundbites about preparing for the ABs since the draw only makes it worse

 

[Jimbo]

All of this. It started in, say, 2007 when we started to display how willing we were to underestimate opposition despite how poor we were, and snowballed with the Johnson and (particularly) Lancaster years when selection went totally nuts - see Burgess in a desperate effort to fix a shitshow at 12, even though Burrell was decent, at least, until his confidence was carpetbombed by that decision.)(Let's ignore the Hape/Noon thing)

Eddie has shown limited signs of breaking that mould as amply demonstrated by the Wales and Scotland games this year when we simply switched off. I'm bricking this match, and hard. Soundbites about preparing for the ABs since the draw only makes it worse

I fully see where you are coming from but part of me thinks the whole switching off in the recent past could actually be an advantage, if measures have been taken to properly fix the issue and England do, SA might not fear going behind so much with the knowledge that twice they have turned a deficit around but England simply don't switch off, that's the hope anyway...

 

[Nudger]

Haskell was in camp today and was totally impressed by England's prep
See house of rugby

 

[Kapa O Pango]

I have a strange feeling Frans Steyn will play a major part in this final.

2007 flashbacks

 

[mdaclarke]

The more I think about this match, the more I think South Africa could grind it out. They are not complete no hopers. Any team with Etzebeth, De jager, De Klerk, Pollard, De Allende and Kolbe has a chance.

It is not a case of England just turning up and being handed the trophy.

 

[tsof]

South Africa: Willie Le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi, Handre Pollard, Faf de Klerk; Duane Vermeulen, Pieter-Steph Du Toit, Siya Kolisi (captain), Lood de Jager, Eben Etzebeth, Frans Malherbe, Mbongeni Mbonambi, Tendai Mtawarira

Replacements: Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff, Vincent Koch, RG Snyman, Franco Mostert, Francois Louw, Herschel Jantjies, Frans Steyn.


Marx on the bench is quite a relief!!

 

[NickBD]

Sinckler and May both fit to play. England name unchanged team.

ENGLAND STARTING XV
15 Elliot Daly (Saracens, 38 caps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 41 caps)
13 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 39 caps)
12 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 78 caps) C
11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 64 caps)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 94 caps)
1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 57 caps)
2 Jamie George (Saracens, 44 caps)
3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 30 caps)
4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 33 caps)
5 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 80 caps)
6 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 18 caps)
7 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 50 caps)

Finishers
16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 20 caps)
17 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 67 caps)
18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 94 caps)
19 George Kruis (Saracens, 40 caps)
20 Mark Wilson (Sale Sharks/ Newcastle Falcons 17 caps)
21 Ben Spencer (Saracens, 3 caps)
22 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 26 caps)
23 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 46 caps)

 

[Ferrari333SP]

As expected. Let's go England! Imagine if Ben Spencer pulls a Stephen Donald and makes the winning score

 

[Ferrari333SP]

 

[User1245]

Great to see the players were in doubt have all gotten over their respective ****les

 

[Jer1cho]

Very disappointed that Marx isn't starting. Also disappointed that Mostert is on the bench. The tiny bit of confidence I had as all but gone. There is 0 benefit to having Mostert come on later. We needed someone like Willemse who could spark something if needed.

I can't help but think Rassie missed a massive trick here. I guess it's time for those free passers to repay the faith now and play out of their skins. The reason Marx was dropped was because his standards were so high that even a small dip would make it seem like he was off form. Mbonambi is decent but he is nowhere near in the same class as Marx is.

My final prediction? England by 12

 

[User1245]

My prediction is Boks by 4 points.

I don't see England being able to live with the Bok set piece, especially in the second half.