[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

[Jimbo]

What would / could he have done with back foot ball in his own half with 3 massive boks bearing down on him? Nothing

probably nothing but it Would have been nice to have someone capable of some magic, the whole tried and tested has worked perfectly over the last4 years oh wait it hasn't England just **** the bed, I'm not guaranteeing he makes a difference but Christ if player of the season isn't worth taking a punt on isn't worth it who is? The point is he is unpredictable England's attacks worth shot down by a
Combination of predictability and poor execution, Cips is anything but predicable...

 

[TRF_heineken]

probably nothing but it Would have been nice to have someone capable of some magic, the whole tried and tested has worked perfectly over the last4 years oh wait it hasn't England just **** the bed, I'm not guaranteeing he makes a difference but Christ if player of the season isn't worth taking a punt on isn't worth it who is? The point is he is unpredictable England's attacks worth shot down by a
Combination of predictability and poor execution, Cips is anything but predicable...

Not to burst your bubble, but in a final you don't need unpredictable, you need reliable.

We were predictable AF!!

 

[Jimbo]

Not to burst your bubble, but in a final you don't need unpredictable, you need reliable.

We were predictable AF!!

You are not bursting anyone'

Not to burst your bubble, but in a final you don't need unpredictable, you need reliable.

We were predictable AF!!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

probably nothing but it Would have been nice to have someone capable of some magic, the whole tried and tested has worked perfectly over the last4 years oh wait it hasn't England just **** the bed,

We just made the final, when most thought quarters or at a push semis was our limit, and a Ford led side dominated the All Blacks FFS

I don't buy this whole narrative of us choking at all. We exceeded expectations.


I'm as big a Cipriani fan as anyone but **** me this isn't a hill worth dying on.
The Boks would have chewed him up and spit him out.

 

[duncanb]

Unfortunately cips is gone and never will be back he had his day tried and stuffed it more than once.
Ford Farrell offer more and also aren't Narcissistic in the grand scheme of things.
Your opinion is valid but more see him as a disruptive factor than a positive one.
Once again better team on day won we all need to move on.
Next week if we were playing we may well win,fine margins at top level.

 

[Jimbo]

We just made the final, when most thought quarters or at a push semis was our limit, and a Ford led side dominated the All Blacks FFS

I don't buy this whole narrative of us choking at all. We exceeded expectations.


I'm as big a Cipriani fan as anyone but **** me this isn't a hill worth dying on.
The Boks would have chewed him up and spit him out.

Probably we will never know, I personally would have rathered us take player of the season over a few players struggling for fitness, but what do I know, as for exceed the expectations That's the sale in you, Christ tell me unless we are million to one favourites should we always except defeat never victors?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

We could have played Merlin the Magician at 10 and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. The match was lost up front.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

As for exceed the expectations That's the sale in you, Christ tell me unless we are million to one favourites should we always except defeat never victors?

No we should be realistic about our chances, and we absolutley did exceed expectations.
Am I happy we lost the final?
No.
Did I ever think we'd make the final?
No.

After we threw away that 30 odd point lead against Scotland did anyone think we'd comfortably beat New Zealand a few months later?

To say we choked does a disservice to how well this side pulled together in this world cup and how well South Africa played in the final.
It's just shithouse.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

We could have played Merlin the Magician at 10 and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. The match was lost up front.

Quite.

 

[Jimbo]

No we should be realistic about our chances, and we absolutley did exceed expectations.
Am I happy we lost the final?
No.
Did I ever think we'd make the final?
No.

After we threw away that 30 odd point lead against Scotland did anyone think we'd comfortably beat New Zealand a few months later?

To say we choked does a disservice to how well this side pulled together in this world cup and how well South Africa played in the final.
It's just shithouse.

Realistic about our chances - my feeling and general consensus seemed to be ABs favourites with Eng, Ire, Wal, SA all pretty even worth that in mind it's kind of as anticipated although against the ABs was quite the performance maybe we should look at recruiting Gatland he was spot on so it would seem.

 

[Jimbo]

So are all us English to just accept that we are simply not quite good enough and we picked the best team who are just simply around 20 points inferior that seems to be the general consensus around here.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So are all us English to just accept that we are simply not quite good enough and we picked the best team who are just simply around 20 points inferior that seems to be the general consensus around here.

At the moment we aren't quite good enough and that was shown by how badly our set piece got battered.
This is a really young side and it will only improve - being realistic about where we are is how we'll improve. If we look at the game and think "Nah, we're better than South Africa we just choked" then we're not going to address our issues.

 

[Taffelaide]

England believed they had won it after the semi. They do it in most sports and so regularly that hubris has become a part of the national identity. Never has a country been so inclined to drink its own bathwater.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Dan Carter in his 2005 Lions Tour form could have started at 10 for England and it wouldn't have mattered, but if anything England needed a less Cipriani-type player, what they needed was a traditional controlling 10 and it showed when Farrell moved there and things got slightly better. Admittedly not the biggest Prem watcher but from everything I've seen of him he'd be a disaster in that game. And is there really all this stuff that he can do that George Ford can't?

 

[Five Meters Out]

So are all us English to just accept that we are simply not quite good enough and we picked the best team who are just simply around 20 points inferior that seems to be the general consensus around here.

NO! I don't see it this way at all. I see very little between the three top teams in world rugby (Wales are one rung down). Plus, I don't view England as having choked in the final. Out of England, AB's and Sth Africa, any could beat the other on their day. In this tourney each had a win and a loss against the other two. In each case the losing team got it wrong in the build up and arrived mentally motivated at 99%. The winning team were at 100% on each occasion and won comfortably.

As I'm sure South Africans will be quick to point out; they got it 100% right on the day that mattered. Good luck to them. They played a great game on the day. However if Sth Africa were to play either of the other two teams next Saturday, I think they'd lose.

 

[Leinster Fan]

So are all us English to just accept that we are simply not quite good enough and we picked the best team who are just simply around 20 points inferior that seems to be the general consensus around here.

You are good enough, you just weren't on the day. It happens, doesn't mean you did all that much wrong preparing for the game.

 

[Jimbo]

I agree with pretty much all the quotes of my last comment, my original point however still stands Cips could have made a difference IF the entire squad was injury free I could understand it, but they weren't I just see a injury free player voted player of the season unanimously to much of a glaring omission, sure he is perceived as disruptive etc, etc I would rather have him as an option and not play him than not have him as an option and this is not a reaction in the aftermath I have been calling for him pre World Cup as a genuine game changer.

 

[die_mole]

So are all us English to just accept that we are simply not quite good enough and we picked the best team who are just simply around 20 points inferior that seems to be the general consensus around here.

It's sport there is a fair amount of randomness to each game. Sometimes you win sometimes you don't. A 20 point margin is well within the realm of possibilities in a match of equals. (Even a marginally better team will lose by 20 sometimes). The term in North America is "pull your goalie." When you're down late in the game you need to take chances and sometimes that leaves you suspect to easy points. Late scores often make the margin of victory larger than the margin of output.

I mean the side literally didn't celebrate the ABs win, but by all means keep trying to belittle England.

South Africa won today and to attribute it to anything other than them being the better side out there does them a great disservice.

I see we have very different definitions of "celebrate".

 

[Jimbo]

Dan Carter in his 2005 Lions Tour form could have started at 10 for England and it wouldn't have mattered, but if anything England needed a less Cipriani-type player, what they needed was a traditional controlling 10 and it showed when Farrell moved there and things got slightly better. Admittedly not the biggest Prem watcher but from everything I've seen of him he'd be a disaster in that game. And is there really all this stuff that he can do that George Ford can't?

Yes IMHO he can do plenty that George can't or doesn't do.

 

[duncanb]

Yes IMHO he can do plenty that George can't or doesn't do.

Jimbo you love Cips you are in a minority yes hes a top prem player top class but hes not a team man 1 man never wins a cup never has and never will teams do.
The fact he moves clubs at regular levels surely tells you something.