[RWC2023] New Zealand vs Uruguay (05/10/2023)

[TRF_Olyy]

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[Kiwiwomble]

most kiwis i talk too think we'll role out a fairly full strength team again to really lock in things

i'm a little concerned we'll pick up some ****les which will result in having to field an under strength team in the QF is we make it

 

[Al Bangor]

New Zealand wins, no problem.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Uruguay have show a bit of fire i think (more than Italy did the other day), so agreed we should win, its injuries im concerned about if we're playing our top team

 

[ncurd]

Uruguay have show a bit of fire i think (more than Italy did the other day), so agreed we should win its injuries im concerned about if we're playing our top team

I think for New Zealand it's a question of how close to first side was it last week. If you like England and don't have a bloody clue an a blindfolded squirrel aiming at a dart board has just as much chance to pick the team and players positions you have to bed that first side.

Otherwise they probably be better off resting key players before a rested SA or Ireland.

France's schedule required some risk NZs doesn't.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I think for New Zealand it's a question of how close to first side was it last week. If you like England and don't have a bloody clue an a blindfolded squirrel aiming at a dart board has just as much chance to pick the team and players positions you have to bed that first side.

Otherwise they probably be better off resting key players before a rested SA or Ireland.

France's schedule required some risk NZs doesn't.

i think most people agree thats more or less our first string team, even Fozzie seems to have come around to clarke not being first choice...week before the QF's of the world cup seems like the right time for the coach to land on what most other people could see years ago

just saw its nearly two years since blackadder played a test...our squad prep has been SO BAD that one injury has resulted in having to take a guy that hasn't played a test in 2 years...thats what fozzie has done to the depth of test hardened players in NZ

 

[Umaga's Witness]

just saw its nearly two years since blackadder played a test...our squad prep has been SO BAD that one injury has resulted in having to take a guy that hasn't played a test in 2 years...thats what fozzie has done to the depth of test hardened players in NZ

Not really. They made a choice between bringing in blackadder (who hasn't played for two years due to injury), bringing in finau (who wasn't ready prior to this year, so has had limited time), and akira is injured, sotutu isn't as versatile. Seems like they built pretty much bang on the right amount of depth there to me. Any more and the players they have wouldn't have had as much experience. If you wanted to be critical you might say they should have realised earlier that akira wasn't their preference, but look at the reality of that and you'll see akira was getting picked when playing well. Plus, a change in forward coach is bound to change preferences. But that wouldn't have changed who they selected now - because akira is injured.

You can't have it both ways - wanting a settled side and wanting depth

 

[Kiwiwomble]

not with ya, i feel as our first alternate they should be more recently involved that 2 years ago, we're not talking about 2011 where we had 4 injuries to first fives, this is the 6th best loosie in the country

what we've had is people like PGS get a shot and then dropped, akira and frizell go back and forward several times (its just luck that frizell is coming right), jacobson given a go but now not favoured even though he made the squad...barrett given several games at 6 even when it was clear he was our best lock (due to BBBR and SW age largely), obviously blackadder 2 years ago...almost no one really given enough time to really lock in the jersey

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I think for New Zealand it's a question of how close to first side was it last week. If you like England and don't have a bloody clue an a blindfolded squirrel aiming at a dart board has just as much chance to pick the team and players positions you have to bed that first side.

Otherwise they probably be better off resting key players before a rested SA or Ireland.

France's schedule required some risk NZs doesn't.

Apart from people coming off the bench as they were coming back from injury, and de groot being suspended, that was the top side. We might hope for some changes like taukeiaho and replacing beauden with faingaanuku (jordan going to fullback) but we don't think it will happen

 

[Kiwiwomble]

... replacing beauden with faingaanuku (jordan going to fullback) but we don't think it will happen

would love to see it but agreed it is really not likely

 

[Umaga's Witness]

not with ya, i feel as our first alternate they should be more recently involved that 2 years ago, we're not talking about 2011 where we had 4 injuries to first fives, this is the 6th best loosie in the country

that's nothing to do with depth, that's them deciding that it's ok to play someone who hasn't played in two years.

And we won in 2015 with less depth than we have now

 

[Kiwiwomble]

that's nothing to do with depth, that's them deciding that it's ok to play someone who hasn't played in two years.

And we won in 2015 with less depth than we have now

doesn't it go hand in hand? they feel injury prone blackadder who last played a test 2 years ago (and even then didn;t really step up) is a viable option because other options are thin on the ground?

but 2015 was stacked with battled hardened "greats"...the depth isn't as important when every jersey is OWNED by at least a couple of guys fighting it out....currently we're one injury from open trials

 

[Umaga's Witness]

doesn't it go hand in hand? they feel injury prone blackadder who last played a test 2 years ago (and even then didn;t really step up) is a viable option because other options are thin on the ground?

but 2015 was stacked with battled hardened "greats"...the depth isn't as important when every jersey is OWNED by at least a couple of guys fighting it out....currently we're one injury from open trials

My point is it's not because they haven't built depth. They just think he is the best option despite them having built depth. Effectively you have finau, akira and sotutu who have been developed, plus the 6 there now, and scooter. So 10 loosies. That seems like enough to me. asking for more than that and you would be seriously compromising the ability to build combinations. Also, blackadder has spent time with the team while injured as I understand. You could add vaai but he hasn't played much in the loose.

For the record I would not have called up blackadder

 

[Umaga's Witness]

And regarding 2015, my point was that f you are lucky with injuries then the less depth you build the better. .

 

[OldSchoolRugga]

This will be another slaughter.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

My point is it's not because they haven't built depth. They just think he is the best option despite them having built depth. Effectively you have finau, akira and sotutu who have been developed, plus the 6 there now, and scooter. So 10 loosies. That seems like enough to me. asking for more than that and you would be seriously compromising the ability to build combinations. Also, blackadder has spent time with the team while injured as I understand. You could add vaai but he hasn't played much in the loose.

kind of feel you're making my point, very few are stand out options and by now i would have expected a fairly clear who the next cab off the rank is and it wouldn't be someone who hasn't played a test in 2 years and even when he did didn't set the world on fire. i mean Akira hasn't played since RC last year...same with sotutu i think

 

[Umaga's Witness]

kind of feel you're making my point, very few are stand out options and by now i would have expected a fairly clear who the next cab off the rank is and it wouldn't be someone who hasn't played a test in 2 years and even when he did didn't set the world on fire. i mean Akira hasn't played since RC last year...same with sotutu i think

Yeah, well, they obviously rate him. Hope they're right. He was definitely the standout super rugby forward when he made the all blacks but you are right he didn't particularly perform at test level.

And I don't think akira and sotutu were necessarily not next in line (after finau). I think the all blacks XV selections were about giving other players more opportunities rather than necessarily being the next best.

I Wouldn't have wanted them to have given tests to any more players I guess is my point. And I don't really see anyone else who should obviously have been given tests instead, except perhaps billy Harmon.

I just realised there was pita-Gus too.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I think we should rest the top team. Or finish with the top teams finishers. You could have the top team as the opposition at training.
Assuming (their) top team is (and finishers written next to players they replace)
De groot tuungafasi
Taylor coles
Lomax laulala
Retallck
Scooter whitelock
Frizell scooter
Cane papalii
Savea
Smith Roigard
Mounga mckenzie
Telea
Jordie
Ione lienert-brown
Jordan
Beauden

Then in this game I'd start and finish as follows
Williams tuungafasi
Taukeiaho coles
Newell laulala
Vaai retallick
whitelock
Frizell scooter
papalii
Blackadder (can't keep playing savea)
Christie Roigard
mckenzie
Faingaanuku Telea
Havili Jordie
lienert-brown
Jordan
Beauden

Or resting as many as possible (with some exceptions needing more game time):
Williams tuungafasi
Taukeiaho coles
Newell lomax
Vaai
Frizell whitelock
Blackadder
Papalii cane
Jacobson
Christie roigard
Mckenzie
Clarke
Havili Jordie
Lienert-brown
Faingaanuku
Beauden jordan

 

[Kiwiwomble]

 

[IT157]

Uruguay to show a bit more fight than Italy, but still get absolutely thrashed.