[RWC2023 SF2] England vs South Africa (21/10/2023)

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

At the risk of starting something, I was reflecting that as much as the draw has been lopsided and England highly lucky, this isn't exactly the first time this has happened - was South Africa's 2007 run one of the easiest of all time? In comparison if England were to go all the way (not happening I know so it's purely hypothetical) , by the end, they'd have had to beat the now top two sides, and there's no way you fluke that.

I wasn't on a forum back then and don't remember what the conversation about the draw was. Difference of course is SA 07 were a top top side and I guess it wasn't so much the entire draw being wonky that was the issue.

 

[McTallshort]

South Africa could have a player sent off in the first 10 minutes then all bets are off.

I have no illusions of the job England have on to beat South Africa but that doesn't mean it won't happen

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I wonder what Walker and Dan arnt trusted for. If it's just their line out, then why didn't SB pick a solid line out option rather than two 'flakey options' in his mind.

Every other country has the power or a fresh hooker come 60 minutes and we run George around. We could really do with Dan coming on at 60 and smashing someone!

 

[BPM]

Smashing isn't really his game though. Dan is more of a busy, mobile hooker. It makes him a good option for the bench in a lot of ways, but I'd much rather we were calling McGuigan off the bench.

 

[Jimbo]

I think Borthwick 100% deserves criticism for his selections at wing and 8. Centre is a little more debatable as there are few outstanding candidates with any experience - Slade (who should have been in the squad) is really the only one. We have the likes of Kelly and Atkinson to add into the mix post RWC but either would have been a risk for this tournament.

Is the hooker situation really Borthwick's fault though? He definitely could have done a better job of managing George's minutes or giving Walker some more game time. However, I'd lay the lack of any experienced depth squarely at Eddie's door. Considering how injury prone LCD has always been, it's mad that we never gave a third choice any real time. McGuigan is the biggest head scratcher for me. Consistently excellent and consistently overlooked … instead we ****** about with a token cap here and there for Walker, Dunn, Langdon and Dolly.

If anything Dan has been a bold selection by Borthwick that deserves a bit of credit IMO.

I'd have given him huge credit had he have given him some descent minutes, It's not all of SBs making I'll concede but still think he could have given him more game time in the pool stages.

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

But many rugby fans from the nothern hemisphere are fed up with seeing referees from the south not applying the rules... and influence the result too much when it's tight.

Like Barnes not penalizing the 2-3 neck-rolls by Ireland players in the 37 phases at the death??

 

[McTallshort]

Like Barnes not penalizing the 2-3 neck-rolls by Ireland players in the 37 phases at the death??

Oh don't tell me, it's all a massive conspiracy

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Times with FB defensive catching stats since Oct 22.

Steward's competed for the most by far - 94, followed by Ramos at 79 and Keenan with 50. Probably partly reflects continuity of selection, but maybe also a willingness to go for some where he could have stood off or taken responsibility away from wings he doesn't have confidence in?

In terms of success Keenan leads the way by a distance, successfully taking 48 of his 50 for a 96% success rate. Steward's taken 81 of his 94 for an 86% success rate putting him bang in the pack.

Bottom of the class with 79% (31 from 39) is Willemse, which won't have escaped Spreadsheet Steve "Hey Owen, I've got an idea……".

 

[mdaclarke]

This will not be the walkover that many people think. I still think that South Africa will win but it will be by about 8.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

This will not be the walkover that many people think. I still think that South Africa will win but it will be by about 8.

I'd take 8. I'd take any win offered. Didn't think I'd be as nervous as for the QF but here we are and I can't say I'm anything but nervous. Almost, I'd prefer the underdog tag.

 

[Bluemoon]

South Africa could have a player sent off in the first 10 minutes then all bets are off.

I have no illusions of the job England have on to beat South Africa but that doesn't mean it won't happen

This post has strong Wales 6N 2021 vibes.

Weirdly, I think it's the physicality of the back that's will undo England eventually. Forwards will just about hold their own, the Boks back row but has been good but England back row has potential to be fast and dynamic over the ball it's just whether they can keep it up like Ireland did. It feels that this is either a hammering for England or England win 9-3.

 

[mdaclarke]

I'd take 8. I'd take any win offered. Didn't think I'd be as nervous as for the QF but here we are and I can't say I'm anything but nervous. Almost, I'd prefer the underdog tag.

I don't think Rassie would allow it, but the Boks need to avoid the mentality that all they have to do is turn up. If they do that they will lose.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't think I'd be as nervous as for the QF but here we are and I can't say I'm anything but nervous.

You should be an England fan instead, zero nerves over here

(Because I know if the largest-ever-deafeat-in-a-semifinal record still stands after today it's been a good day at the office)

 

[Reiser99]

I'd take 8. I'd take any win offered. Didn't think I'd be as nervous as for the QF but here we are and I can't say I'm anything but nervous. Almost, I'd prefer the underdog tag.

I'd take 8 too. That would be a good performance by England.

 

[OldSchoolRugga]

South Africa are playing England today in rugby and cricket. How often does that happen in World Cups on the same day ? Almost never ?

 

[LIONSxv]

I'd give England a 10-20% chance. England do have some very good players. However most are out of form or not playing. If you can get Genge, Itoje, Curry and Manu playing at the top of their ability. Coupled with players who are playing very Well i.e Earl, Marchant. We will give them a very good game
However as those aforementioned players form has slumped from a high standard to mediocre over a sustained period. Coupled with daft selection /omission. It's hard to see nothing but at least a 15+ point victory for SA

 

[Zootalaws]

I'd take 8. I'd take any win offered. Didn't think I'd be as nervous as for the QF but here we are and I can't say I'm anything but nervous. Almost, I'd prefer the underdog tag.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

Bokke by 30

 

[Zootalaws]

the Boks need to avoid the mentality that all they have to do is turn up.

Not sure they've ever done that - they're not England, ffs.

 

[Jimbo]

Not sure they've ever done that - they're not England, ffs.

Certainly not recently, that Japan 2015 defeat they probably did to some extent.

 

[Zootalaws]

I'd give England a 10-20% chance. England do have some very good players. However most are out of form or not playing. If you can get Genge, Itoje, Curry and Manu playing at the top of their ability. Coupled with players who are playing very Well i.e Earl, Marchant. We will give them a very good game
However as those aforementioned players form has slumped from a high standard to mediocre over a sustained period. Coupled with daft selection /omission. It's hard to see nothing but at least a 15+ point victory for SA

The biggest issue with England isn't the players, it's with the RFU and the management of the team.

They could have had Hansen or kept Eddie, who was the winningest coach they've ever had and only Woodward has been close in win ratio.

Consistently making bad decisions is England's trademark.

From youth development to picking the coaching team, the RFU are just fkn inept.