What changes with Eddie Jones

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm against Manu at 12 because he is a 13. He is good, so why not play him at 13? Just because we have JJ doesn't mean we should move Manu to 12.

Btw if Manu started playing for Leicester at 12 I wouldn't be against him playing there internationally.

I get the idea but why move players around? But if that's our best option at 12, a guy who had one good game in a lions teams brimming with talent, a couple of poor to average caps there for England in South Africa and 1 club game.

Not the best track record to justify a move.

It's based on potential. At 13 we have much more threat with JJ or Daly running in space, both also have decent passing games. What we struggle with is making space as our forwards aren't great at trucking it up. Having Manu there to offer a power running threat inside the 13 channel coupled with better runners both inside and outside him could help England. His tendency to run straight would help fix defenders, something JJ and any of our wingers would love. As you said, he had a good game there when he was in a team full of talent. England can have that talent and with Jones, potentially the coaching ability as well. Lastly, it would offer a very different game plan for England. If we can get a good distributor at 12 then we can play very different styles if we need to.

 

[TommiG88]

I would like to see Slade/cipriani, Eastmond, Joseph.

Won't ever happen though.

 

[Maverick1987]

I'm against Manu at 12 because he is a 13. He is good, so why not play him at 13? Just because we have JJ doesn't mean we should move Manu to 12.

Btw if Manu started playing for Leicester at 12 I wouldn't be against him playing there internationally.

I get the idea but why move players around? But if that's our best option at 12, a guy who had one good game in a lions teams brimming with talent, a couple of poor to average caps there for England in South Africa and 1 club game.

Not the best track record to justify a move.

You were against Robshaw playing 7 aswell but were for him playing 6 even though Quins only played him at 7

Tuilagi is easily good enough to slot into the team at 12 he does need to work on his distribution but you tell me a 24 year old player that doesn't have things to work on

 

[j'nuh]

I'm against Manu at 12 because he is a 13. He is good, so why not play him at 13? Just because we have JJ doesn't mean we should move Manu to 12.

Btw if Manu started playing for Leicester at 12 I wouldn't be against him playing there internationally.

I get the idea but why move players around? But if that's our best option at 12, a guy who had one good game in a lions teams brimming with talent, a couple of poor to average caps there for England in South Africa and 1 club game.

Not the best track record to justify a move.

Tuilagi and Joseph are probably our best backs.
Equally, we have no-one really of note at 12. (Hill maybe, I'd probably have him in the squad and give him a run out sometime soon.)

12 and 13 aren't ridiculously different to play, they're two of the most similar positions on the field; it's not like asking one of them to drop into the back three. I agree with you to a point though, that it's ideal to have players in-position in most cases. I just feel that between the two points I've given above, we need to at least give Tuilagi-Joseph a good looking at.

 

[Raggs]

I dislike the idea of Manu at 13 simply because it would mean our 2 best 13s have a massively contrasting style, requiring differing game plans in attack and defence.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

You were against Robshaw playing 7 aswell but were for him playing 6 even though Quins only played him at 7

Tuilagi is easily good enough to slot into the team at 12 he does need to work on his distribution but you tell me a 24 year old player that doesn't have things to work on

Robshaw might have worn 7 put played 6.

I'm not saying tuilagi can't learn and grow into the 12 shirt but playing for England is not the way to do it.

 

[Maverick1987]

Robshaw might have worn 7 put played 6.

I'm not saying tuilagi can't learn and grow into the 12 shirt but playing for England is not the way to do it.

He will improve his distribution under Mauger anyway but all we need is to have our best centres on the fields Manu is one and you can fill the gap with either JJ, Daly or Slade imo

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

What about Joseph at inside?

Feel free to shoot me down on this, and in aware that probably his greatest attribute is his outside break, but distribution his distribution and kicking are already pretty classy.

 

[Maverick1987]

What about Joseph at inside?

Feel free to shoot me down on this, and in aware that probably his greatest attribute is his outside break, but distribution his distribution and kicking are already pretty classy.

I feel like this would take away too many of JJs strengths . His speed in space is huge to his game imo

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I feel like this would take away too many of JJs strengths . His speed in space is huge to his game imo

And agility. And the thought of Manu (a passing, kicking Manu after a couple seasons training in such) providing him with such is dreamy.

Perhaps literally.

 

[TheSaffycen]

What about Joseph at inside?

Feel free to shoot me down on this, and in aware that probably his greatest attribute is his outside break, but distribution his distribution and kicking are already pretty classy.

I thought this before. He is just like Fofana but has better distribution, maybe he hasn't got the same running ability as Fofana though.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Is there any other international side that plays a centre out of position btw?

Or is it just people on here thinking Manu would be great at 12 with all these skills he will learn in the future?

 

[Which Tyler]

Pretty much all of them at various stages. Usually more out of position than converting an OC all the way to IC, because that's not particularly out of position, usually it's FH to IC or wing to OC.
Sometimes temporarily (in emergency or experimentation), sometimes whilst the player learns the position and suddenly isn't out of position any more.

Quick question in return - how long was Ma Nonu "out of position" after switching from wing to IC?

 

[Mattybuck]

I get the feeling the SL and AF have infiltrated this forum.

Manu is a great player with great potential. Prior to getting injured he did not fulfil that potential. He has not played consistent competitive rugby for at least 18 months.

Despite this if he was fit now people would drop JJ. Despite the fact that he has shown the ability to play at the highest level and has maintained outstanding form for his club.

Daly would be 13 if JJ wasn't around. He club form has also been superb. It's almost annoying to have two 13's who are so good

Manu right now 3rd on my 13 list.

If he gets back playing soon, and performing consistently then he can be considered.

But I would not drop the fast, talented players with an all round game for someone who is injury prone and has a limited game.

It's madness.

I think getting them both on at the same time would be an interesting experiment. Worth a look.

 

[AzaMatt]

Is there any other international side that plays a centre out of position btw?

Or is it just people on here thinking Manu would be great at 12 with all these skills he will learn in the future?

scott williams played at 13 instead of 12 during the world cup, but that was only because of injuries

 

[Which Tyler]

MB - Isn't that exactly why many of us want to see him tried at IC? which isn't exactly the same as dropping Joseph/Daly

 

[Peat]

Is there any other international side that plays a centre out of position btw?

Or is it just people on here thinking Manu would be great at 12 with all these skills he will learn in the future?

Ireland play a 13 at 12 and a 15 at 13, usually backed up with a wing at 13 and a wing at 12.

New Zealand often switch Nonu out to 13 when Conrad Smith isn't about; they also tried just dropping in Ben Smith into 13 in such a situation.

South Africa have also just dumped a full-back into 13.

Australia are reasonably orthodox at the moment although who can forget Pat McCabe at inside-centre and there's probably quite a big list of Australians who've played 3 or more back-line positions at test level.

Wales use Scott Williams flexibly, and also sometimes press-gang George North as a 13, and lets not forget Roberts was originally a conversion from full-back.

 

[Maverick1987]

Ireland play a 13 at 12 and a 15 at 13, usually backed up with a wing at 13 and a wing at 12.

New Zealand often switch Nonu out to 13 when Conrad Smith isn't about; they also tried just dropping in Ben Smith into 13 in such a situation.

South Africa have also just dumped a full-back into 13.

Australia are reasonably orthodox at the moment although who can forget Pat McCabe at inside-centre and there's probably quite a big list of Australians who've played 3 or more back-line positions at test level.

Wales use Scott Williams flexibly, and also sometimes press-gang George North as a 13, and lets not forget Roberts was originally a conversion from full-back.

If anyone saw the BT sport edition of the Europe highlights BOD was on there saying other than set plays he doesn't think it matters what number you wear. He thought flexibility at the first receiver was really important

 

[McTallshort]

If anyone saw the BT sport edition of the Europe highlights BOD was on there saying other than set plays he doesn't think it matters what number you wear. He thought flexibility at the first receiver was really important

Exactly! Use the resources you have to execute the game plan you want to play. Players will either rise to it or not. The best ones will rise.

 

[Mattybuck]

MB - Isn't that exactly why many of us want to see him tried at IC? which isn't exactly the same as dropping Joseph/Daly

I'd advocate trying him at 12 certainly, in fact id say he has potential to be awesome. However there are numerous comments suggesting should be picked at 13!

Those were the views I was questioning.