[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 1: Italy vs. Wales (05/02/2017)

[Leonormous Boozer]

LOL - Of course England played a blinder and stormed through yesterday didn't they?

They didn't fail to get a bp against the side that the champions of this tournament will stick four tries on. England are the winners this weekend in terms of chasing a trophy.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

LOL - Of course England played a blinder and stormed through yesterday didn't they?

No, and please point out where I said they did?
I thought we played poorly.

However this isn't an England thread so please try and keep it on topic.

 

[dullonien]

Continuation of how we were playing in the Autumn, poorly!

No real stand-outs in the pack, Warburton probably showed the most with good support play & a couple of crucial interventions in defence. In the backs, I thought Jon Davies had a strong game. He continuously made metres when he received the ball off the restart, carried strongly, and looked to offload in contact. A few lovely touches from Scott Williams too. The rest were below par. Webb's passing was often at the feet of his recipients, whilst Biggar kicked the ball far too much when he was on the field. After turning over the ball a couple of times initially, Sam Davies had some telling contributions. North took a knock early on, and seemed to struggle a little thereafter. Halfpenny and Liam Williams had somewhat mixed games. Williams really should have passed the ball to Davies in the final play of the game, Davies would have just fell over the line!

We were lucky that Italy offered nothing of real note after half time. I do think they were very negative, with the penalty count something like 14-2 early in the second half, yet still no yellow card until 10min later.

Overall, not happy with the performance at all. The more phases we went through, the worse we looked. The rest of the time we were unable to string many phases together at all without someone kicking the ball away, or losing our structure and being forced to kick. Unless we see massive improvements, England will smash us, although England will need to improve as well.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Same as always the Italians completely implode around the 60 minute mark. Their discipline is atrocious, not helped by Parisse being a poor captain. He may be inspiring and all that but when it comes to discipline and keeping the ref on side, he is terrible. After all these years you would think the Italians would have really hammered their fitness but, like clockwork, they fall apart at 60+ mins.

 

[corny]

Same as always the Italians completely implode around the 60 minute mark. Their discipline is atrocious, not helped by Parisse being a poor captain. He may be inspiring and all that but when it comes to discipline and keeping the ref on side, he is terrible. After all these years you would think the Italians would have really hammered their fitness but, like clockwork, they fall apart at 60+ mins.

I think its mental fortitude causing that not physical fitness. They could go 80 if they were as committed as the other nations but call a spade a spade....they just don't want it as much. Fatigue sets in for all players around that time but the Italians are the ones to 'check out'. They're comfortable losing.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Anyone who's played in a losing team knows that it only takes one or two heads to go and everything will fall apart. It's generally different players every time but these guys, for the most part, are getting dicked on week in week out with their clubs only to get picked for the national team so they can get dicked on in front of more people, players are going to give up if anything goes against them in the last quarter of the game.

 

[The5thOfficial]

Just evening up things a bit. Don't be so touchy!

No, and please point out where I said they did?
I thought we played poorly.

However this isn't an England thread so please try and keep it on topic.

- - - Updated - - -

Absolutely. But next week is another set of matches. This week threw up Scotland's win over Ireland. Who knows what will happen next week?

They didn't fail to get a bp against the side that the champions of this tournament will stick four tries on. England are the winners this weekend in terms of chasing a trophy.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Pretty much as expected sadly with only the conditions preventing the Wales getting a BP (the game was a great advert for the BP or the last 20 mins would have been meaningless). Here's hoping it is ******* it down in every Italian game.

I'm still unconvinced by O'Shea's tactics and selections but he doesn't have much to play with and I'd argue the gap between Italy and the 5th best team is far wider than it has ever been for them (following the improvement of Scotland and France). If Italy can get a single point on the table it'll be a miracle. Add in a unusually terrible crowd and it is all a little depressing and can only add fuel to the fire around debates about Italian rugby.

Personally, I'd much prefer to see them play Georgia, Romania, Spain, Russia and Germany than this sort of thing (keeping in mind that Wales are probably only 5th best this year with their backup coach and that this will likely be Italy's most "competitive" performance).

The Italians hired a terrible journeyman coach to coach Treviso (ex-Canadian national team coach Crowley) and fired the more competent Guidi at Zebre (who has far less resources). Things are going to get worse before they get better and O'Shea is not to blame for all of that. It's all about not humiliating ourselves in the short term with an average coach (arguably inferior to Brunel) and hoping that changes to the Pro sides and off the field matters (O'Shea's possible strengths) are successful in the medium to long term and create something that the next coach can play with in 2020.

I thought that Maggie lass and Ugo chap were the best studio performers of the weekend, so I'm not too upset ITV are getting coverage if they maintain that sort of level. Hopefully they can put some ad-breaks in the middle of Italian games to give me some respite!

Anyone know what happened to Garcia by the way? Impressed by him last year

Retired from international duty and became a player coach in the French 4th division. Only aged 32. A complete waste of a solid squad player particularly as we are utterly abject and bereft of all options at 12 with Mclean. I'm hoping O'Shea finds some way to combine Benvenuti & Campagnaro at centre, but he seems insistent on having a kicker at 12 and it's unclear if he made any effort to retain Garcia.

The Italian kick 'strategy' is utterly baffling. They have no clue what they're trying to accomplish. Wales haven't had to worry about exit strategy all game. Madness.

Yes. O'Shea is making Padovani kick it away without thinking. I just about shat myself when Padovani ran it back twice in this match! Twice! That's more than he did in the whole November tests. I think it's all about making sure Italy don't try and play any sort of rugby in their own half; a very negative tactic. Also possibly a very necessary tactic sadly, as it reduces the chances of getting a cricket score against you.

Padovani is crap at up and unders, but this is his first year at fullback, so hopefully it'll improve. It's clear O'Shea is going to stick with McLean and Padovani come hell or high water and in fairness there are no alternatives sticking their hands up.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Didn't manage to see the game, did Wales feel disappointed at not getting the BP? Or was this really hard fought?

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Didn't manage to see the game, did Wales feel disappointed at not getting the BP? Or was this really hard fought?

They arguably didn't deserve the bonus point so have no grounds for being disappointed (although they came within the width of a baw hair from doing so). They left it far too late and only started to look fluid when the Italian heads went down. This was not a vintage Welsh performance and they struggled up front a bit and offered little threat on the counter attack with Halfpenny at fullback. Liam Williams would have had a field day here in my opinion. I wouldn't be knocking knees together if I was an England fan.

 

[Thingimubob]

Didn't manage to see the game, did Wales feel disappointed at not getting the BP? Or was this really hard fought?

Disappointed not to get the bonus point in the sense that Liam Williams dropped the ball on the line during the last play of the game.

More disappointed by the performance in general. We are dire at times in attack, so dull and unimaginative...

Will need a big big improvement to even have a hope against the English.

 

[SharksFan86]

Good win for Wales but no doubt be gutted not to get bonus point.

I would certainly like to see Italy replaced as there is just no improvement from them and while they know they are safe then they will just keep plodding on as they are.

In autumn they should have to face 7th best team in a playoff game to be in next year's six nations and that should happen every year.

 

[Hendo74]

If a scoreline of 33-7 was offered before this game I think most fans would have taken it, especially when some thought Italy might win.

I actually think Italy might pull off a shock win at some point, they did look dangerous at some points and, who knows, might improve in the next few weeks.

Wales were, unsurprisingly, not firing on all cylinders, but when the game opened they showed some quality. Thought two of the subs had a big impact:- Sam Davies (after a shaky start) changed the attack, and Thomas Francis made a difference in the scrum.

Warbs was outstanding. Also was good to see the two centres linking well, some lovely touches from Scott W in particular. It looked like Jon Davies was giving Liam Williams a gobful at the end for not pasing to him.

Anyway, I wasn't too disappointed - bananaskin avoided. Interesting to see who plays at 8 next week - Moriarty did okay but there's only one Talupe. Biggar must be doubtful, if so the 10 shirt is Sam's to own.....

 

[JJFlash]

LOL - Of course England played a blinder and stormed through yesterday didn't they?

Really? I thought England were poor from what I saw.
I didn't see the Wales/Italy game so won't comment.
Next Saturday's going to be a tough one to call but I reckon England will nick it by at least 15!

 

[dullonien]

In terms of selection, we may not come out of this game too badly. I can't see Biggar in a position to start in 5 days time, he looked in considerable pain, and that could be the best thing for us really. England won't relish going up against Sam Davies as they won't know how Wales will play with him at 10. I'm confident he'll both manage the game better (his kicking from hand is superb), and he'll vary our attack. We didn't get to see it v Italy because the game was so broken-up when he was on, but probably his biggest strength is phase play, picking out the correct runner with pinpoint passing. It's the reason his try assist stats are through the roof at the O's.

If Biggar isn't fit for the bench either, Williams will bench, this rendering the inclusion of Roberts pointless. Hopefully that would prompt the inclusion of Steff Evans or similar.

Team I'd like to see:

Rob Evans, Ken Owens, Tom Francis
Jake Ball, AWJ(c)
Sam Warburton, Ross Moriarty, Justin Tipuric

Rhys Webb, Sam Davies
Scott Williams, Jon Davies
North, Liam Williams, Halfpenny

Baldwin, Smith, Lee, Thornton, Faletau, Davies, Williams, Evans

 

[MojoPin]

Very disappointed that we didn't grab the bonus point - if Liam Williams had shown a little patience and recycled at the end I think there's a good chance the try would have come eventually. Still, a decent second half performance that showed us who should be forming the backbone of our game next week. Sam Davies made some mistakes but the benefits in attack far outweighed those couple of lapses. Scott Williams showed some good stuff, Warburton was much stronger in both attack and defense, North was looking more dangerous, Jonathan Davies is improving, and Tomas Francis made a huge impact on the scrum together with Rob Evans.

I feel bad for saying it, but I really hope Biggar doesn't recover in time to face England. Sam Davies isn't 100% there yet but he has the ability to bring the best out of players that are struggling to make an impact outside Biggar and that could make a huge difference next week.

 

[Ospreylian]

Team I'd like to see:

Rob Evans, Ken Owens, Tom Francis
Jake Ball, AWJ(c)
Sam Warburton, Ross Moriarty, Justin Tipuric

Rhys Webb, Sam Davies
Scott Williams, Jon Davies
North, Liam Williams, Halfpenny

Baldwin, Smith, Lee, Thornton, Faletau, Davies, Williams, Evans

Absolutely spot-on. Roberts is absolutely pointless coming off the bench, he provides nothing creative in attack if Wales are losing in a tight game with minutes to go. Steff Evans is the kind of player you hope could spark something out of nothing in the closing moments.


The only other potential change I would make is perhaps starting Gareth Davies, only because Webb looked a little rusty and slow against Italy after just returning from injury. But I'm happy with either tbh.

 

[valley commando]

In terms of selection, we may not come out of this game too badly. I can't see Biggar in a position to start in 5 days time, he looked in considerable pain, and that could be the best thing for us really. England won't relish going up against Sam Davies as they won't know how Wales will play with him at 10. I'm confident he'll both manage the game better (his kicking from hand is superb), and he'll vary our attack. We didn't get to see it v Italy because the game was so broken-up when he was on, but probably his biggest strength is phase play, picking out the correct runner with pinpoint passing. It's the reason his try assist stats are through the roof at the O's.

If Biggar isn't fit for the bench either, Williams will bench, this rendering the inclusion of Roberts pointless. Hopefully that would prompt the inclusion of Steff Evans or similar.

Team I'd like to see:

Rob Evans, Ken Owens, Tom Francis
Jake Ball, AWJ(c)
Sam Warburton, Ross Moriarty, Justin Tipuric

Rhys Webb, Sam Davies
Scott Williams, Jon Davies
North, Liam Williams, Halfpenny

Baldwin, Smith, Lee, Thornton, Faletau, Davies, Williams, Evans

Good shout,I'd consider 1 of Falatau or Gadget for Moriarty or Ball, Iwouldn't start them both as they've had little enough rugby but I would take a chance on one of them

 

[anderton46]

Steph Evans is a perfect player for the bench as he plays both Wing and Fullback and is in good form. THat being said we may as well pick Cuthbert because... well why not.