[2022 Six Nations] Scotland vs England (05/02/22)

[Ragey Erasmus]

There are various decisions I feel were wrong and contributed to our loss but taking Smith off was not one of them. If Squidge is to be believed (huge pinch of salt), England only had 1 period of prolonged possession after Ford came on with the Scots mostly controlling the game by that point.

Smith has lots of potential but, as others said, he isn't the finished article. Russell was all over the place when he first came on the international scene and was known for rabbit in the headlights all-or-nothing type plays and could as easily win a game as lose it. Smith already feels he is coming in at a higher level of control than Russell had but it will still take time to get bedded in. To make out Ford is such a step down is pretty insulting to Ford really.

The game was lost largely because we utterly failed to capitalise when we were dominating. This was largely down to our failing attack and the orchestrators of that on the field and Smith and Youngs, with Jones still being the attack coach I believe? We need to sort out our attack because it is far too predictable now, with the vast majority being either 1 out runners off a 9 who refuses to pass to a player already in motion, moves off a 10 who needs to stand deep to not immediately get clattered as Youngs is so slow and predictable passing, or endless box kicks / 10 kicks, both largely due to the defence being set every single phase.

TL;DR get rid of Youngs, get a 9 who will actually play fast and then see what happens. So many of our issues stem from extremely slow ball.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Honestly don't get the outrage about Smith's substitution at all

If he'd have stayed on, and the match ended the same way, people would've moaned about how we had Ford on the bench and didn't bring him on to put a close game to bed with his experience etc.

All just media outrage to get clicks

 

[Groundhog]

I really don't see how Ford can be blamed for the game shifting against England. He came on and England almost instantly conceded a penalty try without him touching the ball if I'm not mistaken? Ford wasn't great, but let's not pretend he was the biggest factor in England losing, momentum was swinging that way even if you had Dan Carter at 10.

I would also cool the jets on crowning Smith just yet, certainly comparisons to Wilkinson are WAY premature.

 

[General Melchett]

Honestly don't get the outrage about Smith's substitution at all

If he'd have stayed on, and the match ended the same way, people would've moaned about how we had Ford on the bench and didn't bring him on to put a close game to bed with his experience etc.

All just media outrage to get clicks

Yeah, if Scotland don't get that PT and YC from that passage of play then bringing Ford on to close out the game would have been hailed as a masterstroke. Fine lines.

 

[Reiser99]

For me personally I'm definitely not saying Smith is going to be the new Wilkinson etc... but he is what England need and he has been the form 10 since the end of last year. England have been missing something in attack and while definitely any other 9 than Youngs would make a huge difference, Smith also has that x-factor that can change a game.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ford's been the form 10 this season.
Although I do agree Smith needs his time to shine but also let's be realistic it's very different changing a game at club level to prem level.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I would also cool the jets on crowning Smith just yet, certainly comparisons to Wilkinson are WAY premature.

Agreed, can't remotely compare the 2 yet as Smith is waaaay ahead in his early development. I mean did he manage to orchestrate 76-0 and 64-22 defeats on his first 2 appearances as Eng's fly half? Thought not.

Smith's very exciting with bucketloads of potential but internationally that's all it is at the moment. He'll be more polished by Fra but he won't be the finished article by then either. If he's to be our 10 in Fra he needs all the game time he can get - and to be backed when he makes the inevitable mistakes. My £5 would be on him becoming the long term real deal but there's a lot of road to travel before then.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Agreed, can't remotely compare the 2 yet as Smith is waaaay ahead in his early development. I mean did he manage to orchestrate 76-0 and 64-22 defeats on his first 2 appearances as Eng's fly half? Thought not.

If you go by age Wilko had two 6 Nations by now did he not!

Hope Smith gets a proper crack at it anyway. I'd say we were hyping Joey Carbery almost as much (or at least within the same stratosphere of hype) and his career has been a tough watch to this point.

 

[Crash Hamster]

I would accept that my views on Wilkinson and Smith might be mild hyperbole, but I've still not seen anything to suggest I'm wrong.

Smith: <closes out tight game v South Africa which we should have lost>
Jones: Smith lacks experience of closing out tight games!
Smith: <has 17 points to his name and a 7 point lead with 20minutes to go>
Jones: I shall hook Smith as he lacks experience of closing out tight games.
Smith: <fails to get experience of closing out another tight game; or losing a tight game, it doesn't matter>
Jones: If only Smith had experience of closing out tight games...

Ford's been the form 10 this season.

He certainly has been, but he's kicked too much recently and Leicester have turned an easy win into a tight game (in Europe) and a game which they dominated into a defeat (Wasps) Severe case of catching the Eddies....

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What was the easy win?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jones: I shall hook Smith as he lacks experience of closing out tight games.

When did Jones say that?

 

[Crash Hamster]

What was the easy win?

Can't remember, honestly, much rugby under the bridge.

When did Jones say that?

It's a work of entertainment based on actual events...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Can't remember, honestly, much rugby under the bridge.


It's a work of entertainment based on actual events...

TBH Ford only played in 1 European game and that was Bordeux away

 

[Crash Hamster]

TBH Ford only played in 1 European game and that was Bordeux away

May have been the Bordeaux game; interesting kicking away of the ball in the 22; very Jones-style (though I thought it was more recent than that...)

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The way someone people on here talk about Smith is how the Welsh talk about AWJ.

He's a young talented lad but not the finished article with next to no international experience. I wouldn't of subbed him after the try because his tail might be up but before that....its not like he was having a barnstorming game...most of that was the backline he was playing with and Youngs being shite.

Honestly it wasn't a shocking decision from Eddie unlike others he could have made.

It was a shocking decision to take him off though.

Smith playing well getting experience or Youngs playing so poorly and doesn't need experience, which player do you take off again?

 

[Which Tyler]

It seems that once a coach loses popularity, they lose any benefit of the doubt whatsoever, and the very worst possible interpretation of any decision will automatically be assumed to be true. For example look at the criticism he's copped for replacing Smith for Ford - an entirely non-contraversial decision that pretty much any rugby coach would have made at the same point, but it's being used as an example of how he's lost the plot, doesn't know what he's doing, and in some cases, that he's deliberately hamstinging the team because of ego.

FTR, I'm considering the last 20 hours "point proven"

 

[ncurd]

It was a shocking decision to take him off though.

Smith playing well getting experience or Youngs playing so poorly and doesn't need experience, which player do you take off again?

Why not both? They aren't mutually exclusive decisions.

Not taking Youngs off is entirely my point he made worse decisions, taking Smith off was nothing worth getting bent out of shape over.

 

[Rinkadink]

Taking Smith off was a pretty bad call, even if it would make no difference to the outcome of the match. It was one of many bad calls and even worse was taking off 3 ball carriers at exactly the same time in a side lacking them. Youngs? The list could go on.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Why not both? They aren't mutually exclusive decisions.

Not taking Youngs off is entirely my point he made worse decisions, taking Smith off was nothing worth getting bent out of shape over.

Because you don't need both. What the game needed was a proper winger (obviously) and a new SH. Smith was playing well and commanding the game we just lacked the finishing touch and to stop the kicking.

It's funny how Jones is some kind of tactical genius apparently but there is no evidence of that at all. We've very rarely ever looked more tactically astute than the opposition even when we've won.

 

[Which Tyler]

What the game needed was a proper winger (obviously) and a new SH.

Yes

Smith was playing well and commanding the game we just lacked the finishing touch and to stop the kicking.

No

It's funny how Jones is some kind of tactical genius apparently but there is no evidence of that at all.

Is he? any evidence of the claim? outside of the odd single match here and there.

We've very rarely ever looked more tactically astute than the opposition even when we've won.

Including last week, when our FH was failing to command the game despite around 60% possession.