RWC: England - Romania (24-09-2011, 18:00)

[Saintjay]

Mate, his 'team selection' was a ****ing joke. Albeit not a very funny one.

Ha cheers mate, like I said to many early mornings and yeah not very funny at all.

 

[Saintjay]

aaaah! The strain of being an Englishman living in Wales with a Scots Mrs is starting to show.

I am off to get my head out my back side and let the Wilkinson debate continue.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Anyone who isnt Ashton? Can you explain why?. As for Worsley he has never been good enough and always a fringe player.

At 15 it has to be Foden I am afraid and Lawes in the back row. Yeah a slight Northampton bias but I do think they are the best players we have in there positions.

hahaha.

 

[Daylightfire]

From Ben Dirs:

68 mins: Ireland 9-20 England Ireland through the hands but Tuilagi manages to take two Irish attackers out with one hit, skittling Murphy onto Earls and decking them both. Sexton prods one through but Wigglesworth beats Bowe to it. O'Connell with the charge down and here come the men in green again... Healy eventually coughs it up and Croft comes away with it. Flood off the bench, we may see him introduced for the last few minutes and you have to say Wilkinson hasn't had a great game.

Player ratings after Argentina game:

Jonny Wilkinson: Kicked a good early penalty before slumping to an unheard of four misses in a row. Failed to get England's backline across the gainline in a below par performance from England's golden boy. 5


He has been poor in both previous appearances, deluded fans need to wake up and stop fawning over their hero.

A quick and picky point but basing all knowledge off of the BBC text service and Ben Dirs is not really going to make me think, wow this guy watches a lot of rugby and really knows his stuff.

On the debate itself, I'm not convinced Wilko is the answer but we only have two fly halfs and we have to give the both game time with the 1st choice scrum half. It's a daft situation to go into a tournament not know which player is the starting FH but that's the situation we are in

 

[j-dawg]

Ah, but on a ratio of Success (I.E. Achieving something), Farrell lead that 1-0.Not saying that Farrell is good enough like, but that doesn't mean Wilkinson is. He lives off the success from 1 drop goal 8 years ago (forgetting he happened to miss 5 of them in the same game and also passed the wrong way, thus making a difficult conversion which he proceeded to miss). Argentina demonstrated 2 things:

1. Wilkinson does NOT do this mythical "keep the scoreboard ticking over
2. Players with numbers 11 through 15 written on their backs may as well not be on the pitch when he is.

The other options
Flood - All the talent in the world, but the stability of potassium.
Hodgson - Consistently below average
Farrell - Pretty good, won't ever be a world beater
Myler - No
Lamb - Blew it years ago.
Cipriani - Like someone took all the best parts of Carlos Spencer... And threw them away. Cipriani was the result.
Burns - There a definite maybe.
Wilkinson (looking with the same cynical eyes) - His best asset is being named Jonny Wilkinson. Anyone who says otherwise is a communist.


The biggest problem for England however is named Brian Smith.

So by that reasoning, Im guessing you think Borthwick should be re-instated as England captain with immediate effect? No I didn't think so.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think you're arguing with him despite agreeing?


He's saying that Wilko shouldn't be there just because he got the DG to win the World Cup 8 years ago, and is using the example of Farrell, who directed Sarries to the AP prem. saying that if we're going on trophies then he should be there as he won the trophy
But we shouldn't be doing that

 

[j-dawg]

Borthwick should be made supreme Fuhrer and take his seat at the throne of great locks is what I'm thinking.

 

[JW.]

So by that reasoning, Im guessing you think Borthwick should be re-instated as England captain with immediate effect? No I didn't think so.

Nooo nooo not B..b..b..borthwick...

 

[j-dawg]

Steve 'broken nose' Borthwick is not in the England squad...for now

 

[Sixesandsevens]

Im surprised the Wilko knockers are clamouring for Owen 'up and under' Farrell....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

They aren't.....
Farrell was used as an example of someone who shouldn't be there because of a trophy won by a team (used as a parallel to Wilkinson winning the WC)

 

[j-dawg]

and Borthwick was used as an example as a player at the pinnacle of lock forward evolution in modern day rugby.

 

[Sixesandsevens]

They aren't.....
Farrell was used as an example of someone who shouldn't be there because of a trophy won by a team (used as a parallel to Wilkinson winning the WC)

Im sure it has more to do with his excellent form for Toulon and in the warm up games, but whatever.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Excellent form in the warm ups?
I wouldn't say that, he was decent but not amazing....however I agree he was on fire for Toulon last season

 

[Sixesandsevens]

Man of the Match from Stuart Barnes (who actually hates him!) and a very good performance vs Ireland in my opinion, to win over there for the first time in 8 years, Agree to disagree tho

 

[j-dawg]

Wilko this season = Incredible for Toulon, decent for England

Flood this season = Meh for Tigers, meh for England (although he did have no class outside him against wales)

^^ And that is the end of it.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Wilko this season = Incredible for Toulon, decent for England

Flood this season = Meh for Tigers, meh for England (although he did have no class outside him against wales)

^^ And that is the end of it.

Not sure about that to be honest. When was the last time we looked properly dangerous with Wilkinson at Fly Half? I don't count the win against Ireland, that was Tuilagi being good and earls being bad, plus tindall putting an intelligent kick through. None of the threat came from Wilkinson. I just think Flood gives our other backs that extra bit of space by actually being a danger himself and being able to take the ball to the line and find gaps himself.The worst point for England rugby in the last couple of years was that draw with Scotland at Murrayfield in 2010 after which Wilkinson was dropped for consistently average/poor performances. Every quality England performance of recent times that springs to mind had Flood at 10.

Just to add, I do rate Wilkinson as a player, I'm just disagreeing that Wilkinson of late has been much better than Flood. One of the few times I've agreed with Guscott, but he said recently that England play better with Flood at his best than with Wilkinson at his best, and I completely agree.

 

[superhans121]

Totally true, would rather have an in form Flood than in form Wilko any day. "J-dawg" would you care to share examples of JW's incredible play for Toulon this season? Maybe a video or match report? and not just drop goals please. The sad truth about English rugby is that our 'talisman' really isn't as good as we want to believe he is - solid, reliable (notwithstanding Argentina) but nothing spectactular. Also, for the record he was utterly hopeless against Ireland. This hero worship has to stop.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR][TD] England [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] Romania [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Ben Foden [/TD][TD] 15 [/TD][TD] Florin Adrian Vlaicu [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Chris Ashton [/TD][TD] 14 [/TD][TD] Stefan Eugen Ciuntu [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Manu Tuilagi [/TD][TD] 13 [/TD][TD] Ionel Cazan [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Mike Tindall [/TD][TD] 12 [/TD][TD] Iulian Dumitras [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Mark Cueto [/TD][TD] 11 [/TD][TD] Adrian Marian Apostol [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Jonny Wilkinson [/TD][TD] 10 [/TD][TD] Marin Danut Dumbrava [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Ben Youngs [/TD][TD] 9 [/TD][TD] Lucian Mihai Sirbu [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] James Haskell [/TD][TD] 8 [/TD][TD] Ovidiu Tonita [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Lewis Moody [/TD][TD] 7 [/TD][TD] Cosmin Aurel Ratiu [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Tom Croft [/TD][TD] 6 [/TD][TD] Sandu Stelian Burcea [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Tom Palmer [/TD][TD] 5 [/TD][TD] Cristian Constantin Petre [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Louis Deacon [/TD][TD] 4 [/TD][TD] Valentin Poparlan [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Dan Cole [/TD][TD] 3 [/TD][TD] Silviu Florea [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Steve Thompson [/TD][TD] 2 [/TD][TD] Bogdan Zebega Suman [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Alex Corbisiero [/TD][TD] 1 [/TD][TD] Nicolai Nere [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Lee Mears [/TD][TD] 16 [/TD][TD] Marius Tincu [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] David Wilson [/TD][TD] 17 [/TD][TD] Paulica Ion [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Simon Shaw [/TD][TD] 18 [/TD][TD] Mihai Macovei [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Tom Wood [/TD][TD] 19 [/TD][TD] Daniel Gabriel Ianus [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Richard Wigglesworth [/TD][TD] 20 [/TD][TD] Valentin Nicolae Calafeteanu [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Toby Flood [/TD][TD] 21 [/TD][TD] Csaba Minya Gal [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Delon Armitage [/TD][TD] 22 [/TD][TD] Catalin Marius Nicolae [/TD][/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Sixesandsevens]

Totally true, would rather have an in form Flood than in form Wilko any day. "J-dawg" would you care to share examples of JW's incredible play for Toulon this season? Maybe a video or match report? and not just drop goals please. The sad truth about English rugby is that our 'talisman' really isn't as good as we want to believe he is - solid, reliable (notwithstanding Argentina) but nothing spectactular. Also, for the record he was utterly hopeless against Ireland. This hero worship has to stop.

He got loads of MOTM awards. He was sick against Ospreys in the Heineken cup, set up Sackeys try brilliantly. He was very good for Toulon this year, saying he wasnt just detracts from your argument as it shows your completely biased against him.