[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

[spartan32]

Firstly

Last time these teams met Itoje was pretty much dominated by everyone and especially Faf who made a few huge hits and overpowered Itoje on the five meter line to score a try. I see some British reports nonchalantly stating that itoje will silence faf, "sling him to the ground and stem the attack" - BBC

firstly, well picked up Goodey. Pretty sure this is a blunt attempt at a wind up.

and yes FdK did have a great run out last time round, when frankly no one really knew who he was, or what he was about at international level. He no longer had anonymity to protect him. Itoji is a class act, and has been very well honed and moulded by the England and Sarries set up. He won't be looking for FdK especially, he'lol just be looking for another repeat performance on last week.

 

[Which Tyler]

To be fair, there probably is some pundit somewhere that said something like that. But the likes of Mat Dawson or Stephen Jones really shouldn't be considered as representative of British rugby fans. No more so than Rattue is representative of NZ fans.
We all have our idiots, and they're writing for a certain segment of their audience. I'm sure SA has their share as well (see: anyone claiming they'll use Farrell's shoulder as motivation for a RWC final)

 

[Jer1cho]

So as you know, when you're using quote marks, you make it look like you're using quotes.

The BBC article/interview on FdK is heaped with praise and doesn't contain anything close to that sentence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50205789

Where did you get that quote from?

Lol? It's in that article. Matt Dawson said "Maro Itoje is going to try and charge down his kicks. If he has a dart around the fringes he has got to be swallowed up, swung around like a rag doll and put back down."

Not what England said though, it's what Dawson says they must maybe do to contain him.

 

[TRF_heineken]

To be fair, there probably is some pundit somewhere that said something like that. But the likes of Mat Dawson or Stephen Jones really shouldn't be considered as representative of British rugby fans. No more so than Rattue is representative of NZ fans.
We all have our idiots, and they're writing for a certain segment of their audience. I'm sure SA has their share as well (see: anyone claiming they'll use Farrell's shoulder as motivation for a RWC final)

Yeah exactly. Some pundits use way more colourful descriptions and words to express their passion and feelings of what is going to happen. I've seen quite a lot of videos on my social media from both sides of the park being a bit OTT.

 

[Nudger]

2 defeats, away, at altitude too after electric starts. 3 good wins. Doing my nut in now.

Also eddy deliberately trained at sea level to stress the squad

 

[spartan32]

reckon the only person who's going to get swallowed up and crunched by Itoji is Dawson for that sort of stupid remark.

 

[Which Tyler]

Lol? It's in that article. Matt Dawson said "Maro Itoje is going to try and charge down his kicks. If he has a dart around the fringes he has got to be swallowed up, swung around like a rag doll and put back down."

Worth pointing out then, that A] Matt Dawson - nailed it!
B] That's an entirely different thing to your quote - selective quote like that would make Piers Morgan hang his head in shame - or at least, he would if he were capable of "shame"

 

[Jer1cho]

Worth pointing out then, that A] Matt Dawson - nailed it!
B] That's an entirely different thing to your quote - selective quote like that would make Piers Morgan hang his head in shame - or at least, he would if he were capable of "shame"

Not my quote. I just pointed it out after the question was asked, as I read the article. I said nothing about it. Besides, seems like a pretty good tactic to me.

 

[spartan32]

reckon the only person who's going to get swallowed up and crunched by Itoji is Dawson for that sort of stupid remark.

 

[Which Tyler]

Not my quote. I just pointed it out after the question was asked, as I read the article. I said nothing about it. Besides, seems like a pretty good tactic to me.

Your selective quoting strongly suggests that Dawson thinks that Itoje will doing Far to the ground.
Dawson, however, says no such thing.
He says that if Faf is going to snipe around the corners, then someone needs to fling him to the ground - which is entirely non-contraversial.

Dawson (shit pundit) essentially says "if the SH snipes, someone needs to tackle him"
You selectively quote to imply he said "Itoje will silence Faf"
There's a difference, a big one.

ETA/FTR: We're comparing this:
I see some British reports nonchalantly stating that itoje will silence faf, "sling him to the ground and stem the attack"
To this:
"If he has a dart around the fringes he has got to be swallowed up, swung around like a rag doll and put back down."

 

[Jer1cho]

Your selective quoting strongly suggests that Dawson thinks that Itoje will doing Far to the ground.
Dawson, however, says no such thing.
He says that if Far is going to snipe around the corners, then someone needs to doing him to the ground - which is entirely non-contraversial.

Dawson (**** pundit) essentially says "if the SH snipes, someone needs to take him"
You selectively quote to imply he said "Itoje will tackle him"
There's a difference

Really? unrated put in his message what he read. Goodey asked him, "where did you get that quote from" To which I just responded with the line where it was probably from. Honestly, try to read a few earlier posts first instead of saying I am selectively quoting anything.

Only thing I was pointing out was where I think that quote came from. I don't give a toss about it. I never even brought it up.

 

[spartan32]

So with Spencer coming in last gasp, and sure to be on the bench, will Jones be hoping for a full 80 mins out of Young's? I would suspect so. The question is, what happens if it goes beyond 80? Would Young's be expected to make it all the way though extra tike
As well? Will he only come off if injured? It's could be a real problem. Don't know Spencer well or how good he is, but coming in cold to a WC final is a massive ask for anyone

 

[unrated]

Thanks @Jer1cho for getting the quote.

I actually paraphrased as I read the article and put in quotation marks what I remembered and although my exact quote differed the message was still the same. So the part about him being slinged to the ground was quoted by Jer1cho and then the second part where i said that BBC said it would stem the attack was as a result of this quote ""If you take his energy away then South Africa are running low on other avenues to inject any kind of energy into their own team" but yes it was a paraphrase, still means the same message but should not have been in direct quotes.

 

[Which Tyler]

Really? unrated put in his message what he read. Goodey asked him, "where did you get that quote from" To which I just responded with the line where it was probably from. Honestly, try to read a few earlier posts first instead of saying I am selectively quoting anything.

Only thing I was pointing out was where I think that quote came from. I don't give a toss about it. I never even brought it up.

Sorry - you're right, it was unrated, not you.
Got carried away with the reply function, and not noticing.

I won't go and edit the name changes, as that will just end up even more confusing.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Both teams have cause for optimism. It will probably be tight, but if either team is going to win by a bit of a margin I think Eng has the firepower, and seemingly some new found mental toughness, to do it.

With my English head on I'm not exactly intimidated by the Boks RWC so far.

Lost in their RWC defining match, to a team we beat convincingly.

Walloped minnow

Walloped worst NH side

Walloped minnow.

Beat spirited host who are really minnow+. The ghost of Brighton was there but in reality all they had to do was keep their heads and the power differential was always going to tell. They did and it did, job done but nothing really to write home about.

And then the semi where both sides stank the place out. If this was the Boks "test" they passed, but not with flying colours. Wales lost quite a few key players before and during yet it was only resolved in the last 5 minutes. If I was Welsh (thankfully not) I'd really be thinking that was one that got away. A bit of ambition may have made the world of difference.

The world game needs a strong Boks and it's fantastic that they're back from where they were a couple of years ago. But for me all the logic points to England, but the game's not played on paper and the ball's a very funny shape.

Could all boil down to which ex Wasps full back cocks up the least.

 

[MarkyH]

That's the first optimistic-ish post I've seen from you @Old Hooker

Totally agree with you!

 

[Goodey]

The odd thing for me about the Sa-Wales semi final isn't that the Springboks were unimpressive, because they were. It's that they could play more effectively, but might choose not to?

They had a huge advantage up front and stopped Wales from carrying and recycling very effectively, so Wales were forced to kick for ground.

SA on the other hand kicked for ground for reasons that I can't really gather. They were bigger, faster and in better shape so they could have carried hard at them, won the gain line and then the space would open up for their backs. You can see when they scored their try how much space opened due to the defence scrambling to cover for Pollard's mini-break.

I have heard a bit of 'SA won ugly' here and elsewhere and that's true but I don't think it helped them, if anything I think it made their job harder as Halfpenny was much more suited to the aerial ping pong than Le Roux.

So I am caught between 'SA could play much more dangerously' and 'SA don't seem to want to play dangerously'. It's hard to know what to make of them.

 

[MarkyH]

Maybe SA accepted the loss via NZ, then proceeded to win games simply knowing they were good enough to reach a final while keeping all their cards close to their chest. England did something similar in the first couple of games.

Get ready for a running rugby feast on Saturday chaps

 

[TRF_heineken]

Both teams have cause for optimism. It will probably be tight, but if either team is going to win by a bit of a margin I think Eng has the firepower, and seemingly some new found mental toughness, to do it.

I think that is something we can say about both teams

With my English head on I'm not exactly intimidated by the Boks RWC so far.

Ditto

Lost in their RWC defining match, to a team we beat convincingly.

Defining match? Seriously? This match was the least defining match. It's a 50/50 win prior to that game, and we knew that we will qualify should we win the other 3 games. Defining? If anything, that loss is what helped us get to the final because we got a better draw.

Walloped minnow

Walloped worst NH side

Walloped minnow.

Yeah yeah, That was expected. But what you are forgetting was that how we used those matches to conserve energy and keep our players fresh. We rotated our squad and ensured that we stay injury free. But more than that, we used those games to get players back in form. Faf and Kolisi as prime example.

Beat spirited host who are really minnow+. The ghost of Brighton was there but in reality all they had to do was keep their heads and the power differential was always going to tell. They did and it did, job done but nothing really to write home about.

Nothing really to write home about? Come on man, the entire world was against us. The way we shut them down when no-one else could just proved that we were in a different class than the other teams.

And then the semi where both sides stank the place out. If this was the Boks "test" they passed, but not with flying colours. Wales lost quite a few key players before and during yet it was only resolved in the last 5 minutes. If I was Welsh (thankfully not) I'd really be thinking that was one that got away. A bit of ambition may have made the world of difference.

Meh, Everyone expected this game to be a kickfest, and it was a case of who would capitalize the best. But Wales had our number the last couple of years, so the mental victory was immense to get that monkey off our back.

The world game needs a strong Boks and it's fantastic that they're back from where they were a couple of years ago. But for me all the logic points to England, but the game's not played on paper and the ball's a very funny shape.

Indeed.

Could all boil down to which ex Wasps full back cocks up the least.

If they are selected that is yeah.


But We just need to take into consideration that SA faced Japan, Italy and Wales in this world cup, and apart from the warm-up against Japan, the last time they played these 3 teams, they lost. So that alone is a massive milestone. I think we are mentally in a great position, and that was usually an area where we struggled in the past.

 

[ncurd]

But We just need to take into consideration that SA faced Japan, Italy and Wales in this world cup, and apart from the warm-up against Japan, the last time they played these 3 teams, they lost. So that alone is a massive milestone. I think we are mentally in a great position, and that was usually an area where we struggled in the past.

I appreciate losing to Italy was definitely something to be avenged but not something you really should be writing home about.

To put this into context England have never lost to Italy not even when we were at our Andy Robinson worst and we've played them ever year for the past 21 years. Although they did run close in '08, '10 and '12 at home.

Your loss was also their last win against a Tier 1 nation.



Japan in the context of this world cup is a fair cop but still a game you should be winning.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

WRT Faf's sniping, our blindside is probably the best flanker in the world to contain that considering he's trained and played with him for the last two years and is his protection on the pitch - If anyone's gonna be able to read his game (and that's still an if, because Faf is...eclectic/unpredictable) it's gonna be Curry

 

[TRF_heineken]

I appreciate losing to Italy was definitely something to be avenged but not something you really should be writing home about.

To put this into context England have never lost to Italy not even when we were at our Andy Robinson worst and we've played them ever year for the past 21 years. Although they did run close in '08, '10 and '12 at home.

Your loss was also their last win against a Tier 1 nation.



Japan in the context of this world cup is a fair cop but still a game you should be winning.

Yeah, It should never have happened, but it did.

It's the perspective that's important here.

Can you see what a massive turnaround there was with our team since that happened? And we're not done yet either.