[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

[User1245]

T- 24.

I feel sick.

I've had knots in my stomach this whole week. This is not good for my health

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Got how boring is the 'whose media are worse' argument where both sides pick and choose the most obnoxious noise from the entire internet.

Who ******* cares, honestly.

Considering I still hear about ******* Paddy Power billboards from February I'd suggest this should be an internal conversation for you and your countrymen!

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I've had knots in my stomach this whole week. This is not good for my health

Right with you. I had a 15 second reprieve whwn Sinckler was deemed fit, but that's it

 

[Goodey]

Considering I still hear about ******* Paddy Power billboards from February I'd suggest this should be an internal conversation for you and your countrymen!

No, **** this comment in particular. What is the point of grouping every single person from a country and deciding they all speak with one voice.

What do you get out of it? Does it make any conversation better to put words in my mouth and expect me to defend them?

 

[Reiser99]

I assume the article is this one from Dawson on BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50246735

I agree that saying England are better man for man is ridiculous. However some S.A posters here have said they wouldn't have any of our front 5, which I think is ridiculous too. Both sides have got excellent players and tbh they work best in their sides and with their systems, so comparisons are rarely worthwhile.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

No, **** this comment in particular. What is the point of grouping every single person from a country and deciding they all speak with one voice.

What do you get out of it? Does it make any conversation better to put words in my mouth and expect me to defend them?

I actually meant to just write "for your countrymen" so I apologise for that! But like, at the next England meeting please tell everyone that the next person to mention that or BOD's version of the Dawson comment is getting a headbutt from me!

I kind of agree with you but it's fruitless, in the days of clickbait and purposefully provocative media it's going to surround every big game. Best ignored if you can!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hendre Fourie

You leave Shrek out of this

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

You leave Shrek out of this

His actually my sister's bestie's brother so I really ought to. Think I am safe here though LOL

Onto aprevious subject what would a combined XV actually look like? Trying my best to be unbias (quite impossible though):

1 (No idea here. I'll call it a tie.)
2 Marx (I can't believe we're not starting an near-form again Marx. Since he is not starting do I have to give it to George?)
3 Sinckler (Wow, this one was tough- the teddy bear Malherbe is such an unsung hero..)
4 Itoje
5 De Jager
6 Curry
7 Du Toit (Who's been SAs best player this year IMO)
8 Vermeulen
9 I really couldn't say. Call it a tie again. Depends on the day.
10 Pollard (Probably cheeky bias here LOL- final to settle this one)
11 May (the player in white I fear the most TBH- he has scored so many tries vs us of late)
12 Impossible to compare De Allende and Farrell.. both have had excellent tournaments so far. Depends who you have elsewhere.
13 Tuilagi (but I am looking for Am to place a marker this game and show us how much space he can make for others. Something you see at SR level but I can't recall seeing thsi tourney yet)
14 Kolbe
15 N/A or if have to make it pick then Daly by default as Willie has been horrendous.

So SA 6, England 6. That's the most I can give England LOL. No one can expect more surely!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I know what people feel about the WR rankings but anyway; with NZ winning by 15+ they bump SA down to 3rd and slide in just behind England at 92.11 to England's 92.29.

So the final could result in the following movement;

England win by </=15

Eng 93.97
NZ 92.11
SA 89.03
Wal 85.02
Ire 84.45
Aus 81.90
Fra 80.88
Jap 79.28
Sco 79.23
Arg 78.31


England win by >15

Eng 94.82
NZ 92.11
SA 88.18
Wal 85.02
Ire 84.45
Aus 81.90
Fra 80.88
Jap 79.28
Sco 79.23
Arg 78.31


SA win by </=15

SA 93.03
NZ 92.11
England 89.97
Wal 85.02
Ire 84.45
Aus 81.90
Fra 80.88
Jap 79.28
Sco 79.23
Arg 78.31


SA win by >15

SA 94.18
NZ 92.11
England 88.82
Wal 85.02
Ire 84.45
Aus 81.90
Fra 80.88
Jap 79.28
Sco 79.23
Arg 78.31

 

[Goodey]

If it's a draw AET - regardless of who wins the cup on penalties - NZ will be the world's #1 ranked team again .

 

[ncurd]

I know what people feel about the WR rankings but anyway; with NZ winning by 15+ they bump SA down to 3rd and slide in just behind England at 92.11 to England's 92.29.

I think this highlights what utter nonsense they are, the team that comes second in RWC are going to be ranked as below the team that came 3rd. One of those team literally one week before just beat the team that will be 2nd pretty comprehensively.

 

[stormmaster1]

His actually my sister's bestie's brother so I really ought to. Think I am safe here though LOL

Onto aprevious subject what would a combined XV actually look like? Trying my best to be unbias (quite impossible though):

1 (No idea here. I'll call it a tie.)
2 Marx (I can't believe we're not starting an near-form again Marx. Since he is not starting do I have to give it to George?)
3 Sinckler (Wow, this one was tough- the teddy bear Malherbe is such an unsung hero..)
4 Itoje
5 De Jager
6 Curry
7 Du Toit (Who's been SAs best player this year IMO)
8 Vermeulen
9 I really couldn't say. Call it a tie again. Depends on the day.
10 Pollard (Probably cheeky bias here LOL- final to settle this one)
11 May (the player in white I fear the most TBH- he has scored so many tries vs us of late)
12 Impossible to compare De Allende and Farrell.. both have had excellent tournaments so far. Depends who you have elsewhere.
13 Tuilagi (but I am looking for Am to place a marker this game and show us how much space he can make for others. Something you see at SR level but I can't recall seeing thsi tourney yet)
14 Kolbe
15 N/A or if have to make it pick then Daly by default as Willie has been horrendous.

So SA 6, England 6. That's the most I can give England LOL. No one can expect more surely!

Gotta love player v player comparison or combination XV teams. They are pretty irrelevant for a single match. Last week most people in the media chose Whitelock and Rittalick over Itoje/Lawes.

When 2 top sides play either team might turn it on, get a combination of great gameplan, physical intensity and player inspiration and then beat or even dominate their opponent. That's why this match is so hard to call.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think this highlights what utter nonsense they are, the team that comes second in RWC are going to be ranked as below the team that came 3rd. One of those team literally one week before just beat the team that will be 2nd pretty comprehensively.

How? NZ beat SA in the world cup and had a much better world cup cycle than both finalists. If England beat them in a normal test match no one would have been calling for England to be ahead in the rankings.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Gotta love player v player comparison or combination XV teams. They are pretty irrelevant for a single match. Last week most people in the media chose Whitelock and Rittalick over Itoje/Lawes.

When 2 top sides play either team might turn it on, get a combination of great gameplan, physical intensity and player inspiration and then beat or even dominate their opponent. That's why this match is so hard to call.

LOL, sure but I'm basically done for the week and need something to pass the time...

 

[ncurd]

If England beat them in a normal test match no one would have been calling for England to be ahead in the rankings.

....I would.

 

[Goodey]

Given the impossibility of the task of ranking variable sides that don't face the same challenges, the rankings do about as good a job as can be expected. I've certainly never heard a proposed better version.

If you look at the points gaps rather than the positions changing they make a lot more sense - there is currently a very close top 3, then a jump to 4th, regardless of the final and I would agree with that.

 

[stormmaster1]

LOL, sure but I'm basically done for the week and need something to pass the time...

Fair enough
1-Eng
2-tie
3-SA (but Eng if game moreopen)
4-Eng
5-SA
6-Eng
7-Eng
8-SA

9-SA
10-Eng

11-Eng
12-SA
13-Eng
14-tie
15- Eng

14 was tricky, Kolbe has been a top finisher but Watson has been near perfect in every other aspect in last 2 matches.

Player for player I think there is an argument to choose England in almost every position, but I couldn't say the same for SA. I just wish that would be a reliable predictor of victory.

 

[Gena_ZA]

okay my countdown has started.
drinks - green tea and cream soda
meals - green curry and then just veggies, greens only

That is until tomorrow morning, then all hell breaks loose

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

....I would.

You'd be in a small minority, I think!

To put it another way, if South Africa lose tomorrow have they had a better world cup than New Zealand? I don't think so, they lost the match between the two and lost to the same team NZ did, the only point of difference was a win over Japan v a win over Ireland which doesn't really do anything to reverse a head to head loss.

If England lose tomorrow they obviously lose the claim to be world number one and then you have to rank them against NZ, NZ have lost 6 times in this world cup cycle, England have lost 9 (ignoring warm ups) it'd be the same number of losses and draws this year while England lost three times more last year. I don't see how one victory over them should see you ahead in the rankings when they were so far ahead of you at the start of the year and the tournament.

I think the rankings get unfair criticism, apart from going mental around world cup warm ups they're generally a fair reflection at the end of an international period.

 

[ncurd]

snip

I've said before I'd stop the rankings at the warms ups and reset the rankings post world cup and give people starting points based on where they finished. That way teams won't have ridiculous cushions based on past successes when they likely about to have huge personel changes.