[November Tests 2017 EOYT] England vs. Samoa (25/11/2017)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Twickenham
Time: 16:00 CAT (SA, GMT+2)​

 

[ncurd]

Kind of match where all we can do is lose unless we give Samoa a good kicking (which is unlikely).

I'd like to see a full strength team with one or two minor changes but not try anything radical.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd like to see an all new front row. Cole looks knackered, it's about time George got a start (although Hartley's been going slightly better than some of his critics would have us believe) and I'd always start Marler ahead of Mako anyway. But for this game I'd like to see Genge given a chance.

Apart from seeing how their direct replacements go, that would be 200+ caps lost; let's see what the leadership looks like without them.

Underhill's injury may force changes in the back row anyway so we'll wait and see there. Behind, I wouldn't mind seeing Care given a start but otherwise I'd leave alone.

 

[MarkyH]

I've read that Underhill has been ruled out so would love to see Simmonds from the squad at 7, ideally would like to see the other Curry called up so we can have a look at him too (remember, he was picked first over Tom until he got his injury in the summer). However, what I've read it might be the same back row that played the majority of the Aus game with Robshaw at 7. No massive complaints though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd like to see genge get a decent chunk of game time however i feel he'll end up in the bin or red carded for fighting

 

[Scotty]

vs samoa

Genge
George
Cole/williams
Launch
Lawes
Robshaw
Simmonds
Hughes
Care
Ford
May
Faz
Slade (needs to be tried at 13 in this setup)
Daly
Watson

Mako
Hartley
Williams/cole
Itoje
Mercer (id like him to get a shot even as an apprentice)
Youngs
JJ
Brown? Roko?

Yes i just posted this on the eps thread rather than here but oh well i brought it over.

A few changes on merit, george and care.
A few for experience genge, simmonds and slade.

Still a very strong team and nit much change to the 23 overall. If not mercer on the bench then start Iseikwe as lock cover and itojeor lawes as back row cover.

I think this team would do well against samoa especially with JJ coming off the bench fresh fir the last 20 .

 

[Which Tyler]

I'd swap around the bench and starting front rows, give Simmonds a start at 7. I'd also consider giving Slade another shot at IC, and starting Roko over Daly.

I'd also mention the Raeburn shield a lot in the build up.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'd want to see Daly at 13, roko and May on the wings, The current front row on the bench (not much impact except vunipola but they should rest and/or see how their replacements deal with 60mins). Wonder how Isiekwe, Itoje and Lawes as locks and 6 would work? Probably the most athletic lot we could put out. Care to start at 9 and see if we can play a high tempo game from the off and just run Samoa off the park.

 

[nh206]

I definitely don't want to see wholesale changes as Wales and Ireland showed that doesn't really tell us anything. I agree it would be good to change out the front row as they have been knocking on the door for a while. Agree with Simmonds coming in at 7, it's such a shame the injuries prevent us seeing the players who are more likely long term there, but hey, that's how it goes.

I don't see any benefit in swapping Youngs for Care. As a Quins fan, I'm very pro-Danny but I think from Eddie's perspective, Youngs makes a better starter for the game management and Danny is well suited to upping the tempo and taking advantage of a slightly looser field. This isn't going to change from one test against Samoa even if he replicates his final 10 mins from last week.

I sort of want to see an unchange backline just to see them cut loose and bed in some more attacking plays against what we would expect to be a more open field. Otherwise, I think 13 is the main position where we might see a change. I doubt we will see Daly start there as we haven't so far. It would be good to see Slade at 13 but JJ is a low risk pick. Whatever happens here, I expect we'll see JJ starting in our first 6N game.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Turns out Samoa lied about being bankrupt,
Hopefully we can cancel that 100k cheque!

I understand they don't much money at the best of times but they shouldn't lie about it.
The RFU already pay for their entire end of year tours (flights accommodation etc.) for all games, so the Scotland and Romania games were on our dime too, then they try and guilt 6 figures out of us on top of that.

 

[curtbob7]

The 75K is compo for us crocking Mulipola

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

A ludicrous fixture. The worst of the Pacific Islanders against the 6N champions. I dont understand the motivations behind this. Eddie should go hugely experimental again like he was forced to do with the Pumas series.

 

[RedruthRFC]

A ludicrous fixture. The worst of the Pacific Islanders against the 6N champions. I dont understand the motivations behind this. Eddie should go hugely experimental again like he was forced to do with the Pumas series.

As others have said, other than saving blushes all round (saving England's if they fail to destroy Samoa, saving Samoa's should they get destroyed), what is to be gained by fielding a pickup side? To my mind, there's much more to be learned / gained dropping in a few fringe players and seeing how they perform and how the combinations work. Comments about some players needing a rest are very valid too and should be part of the thinking.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

25 man squad.
No Watson Joseph or Hughes!
Farrell Slade centres with Loz on the bench?
Simmonds or Robshaw at 8? We're gonna have 5 locks in the 23!
Francis and Mako to be released back to clubs?

Backs

Fullbacks: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby).

Inside backs: Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Piers Francis (Northampton Saints), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Forwards

Back five: Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs).

Front row: Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs).

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I definitely don't want to see wholesale changes as Wales and Ireland showed that doesn't really tell us anything.

I don't think that's correct from an Ireland point of view, just because we were challenged doesn't mean Schmidt didn't learn anything, he probably learned more. For example he learned that Conway, Carbery, Sweetnam and Porter are worth investing more time in to get them RWC ready as able deputies/starters among other lessons, the unfamiliarity brings out the individuals which is needed when you're low on caps outside the starting 23. I'd agree that England don't need to do it because they have plenty of caps outside their 23 and if I was Jones I'd be restricting it to 7 or 8 changes with the idea of seeing if possible starting combinations can improve what's there and maybe blooding a back up 10/hoping someone shows up better than Ford, because I think England lose more by moving Farrell from 2nd 5/8th than losing any other player. A Loz/Farrell axis would hold up a hell of a lot better than a Farrell/Te'o for example but Loz is sitting on three caps and needs starts before the RWC if that's to be an option. England are slightly ahead of the curb building a squad but wholesale changes definitely had their merits, maybe more so for the Irish than the Welsh who seem to not have their starting 23 though.

 

[TW27BA]

I'd rather Eddie tinkered with the side for this game than waiting until the 6 nations.
Sure he has at least 2 players in mind for every position so lets see Slade and Daly at 13, Lozowski at FB and Simmonds given a decent run out.

I like the squad above. The missing players are a shoe in anyway.

 

[Every Time Ref]

My best guess:

15. Brown
14. Roko
13. Daly
12. Slade
11. May
10. Ford
9. Youngs
8. Simmonds
7. Robshaw
6. Lawes
5. Ewels
4. Launchbury
3. Genge
2. Hartley
1. Vunipola

I'm not convinced but the most likely I could come up with from the squad. Daly at 13 and Roko starting both seem unlikely given EJ's selection history, but otherwise you end up with three playmakers at 10-12-13 which seems ludicrous

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Genge has become a tighthead now then?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If Eddie isn't taking this opportunity to try Watson at 15 then I think it's safe to say that he has no intention of replacing Brown before 2019.

So with Hughes, JJ and Watson out, that seems to me very much like he's taken out our key attackers in the wide channels (Hughes has been attacking mostly on the wings so far this series). Therefore it seems very much like instead of us running in tries versus the Samoans he wants to see us front up physically against them, particularly in our pack which have been seriously lacking in go forward. After all, who better to test out our physicality against than the Islanders.

With that in mind, I expect to see a more or less unchanged starting side with a few tweaks for the absent players and the players who I think are pretty knackered.

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Ewels
6. Lawes
7. Robshaw
8. Simmonds
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Slade
14. Rokoduguni
15. Brown

16. George
17. Genge
18. Williams
19. Isiekwe
20. Itoje (think he'll come on fairly early at 6 to see who copes better there out of himself and Lawes)
21. Care
22. Lozowski
23. Daly

 

[Scotty]

If Eddie isn't taking this opportunity to try Watson at 15 then I think it's safe to say that he has no intention of replacing Brown before 2019.

So with Hughes, JJ and Watson out, that seems to me very much like he's taken out our key attackers in the wide channels (Hughes has been attacking mostly on the wings so far this series). Therefore it seems very much like instead of us running in tries versus the Samoans he wants to see us front up physically against them, particularly in our pack which have been seriously lacking in go forward. After all, who better to test out our physicality against than the Islanders.

With that in mind, I expect to see a more or less unchanged starting side with a few tweaks for the absent players and the players who I think are pretty knackered.

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Ewels
6. Lawes
7. Robshaw
8. Simmonds
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Slade
14. Rokoduguni
15. Brown

16. George
17. Genge
18. Williams
19. Isiekwe
20. Itoje (think he'll come on fairly early at 6 to see who copes better there out of himself and Lawes)
21. Care
22. Lozowski
23. Daly

Id rather see itoje start, hes been rested, benched and now he should start. Id rate Iseikwe above ewels but yours is pretty much same as i would say given whos been retained.

Hughes injured is a big ask for Simmonds, he has been sound defensively as was slade but neither of them have excelled like they do for the Chiefs in attack. They both need a good game to be a secure a spot in EJs plans