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[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

Ben Curry is flying out to Japan. Officially just to be there to support his twin but screw it let's send him on at half time if Tom is looking tired. No one would ever know.
 
A couple of random notes:

1) I wouldn't mind Andries Coetzee round about now.

2) Eddie Jones will be coming to the Stormers. If this doesn't transpire its because we kicked him to the curb and are gentle enough to keep it on the down low.

3) SA to peek at RWC 2023
 
I wonder if EJ is going to revert back to Farrell at fly half and play MT and HS in the centres ?
I think it is pretty clear how SA are going to play - try to beat us up in the pack and box kick and chase us down all game long - when SA do go beyond Pollard they will try to batter our 10/12 axis with De Allende .
I think EJ will reason that we are going to have a slug fest at least at the beginning and that he can afford the luxury of bringing Ford on later to either control the game or open it up.
If so this could be really harsh on Ford who played very well against the ABs - but remember he does so off front foot ball and I can't see us dominating the SA pack in the same way.
I am quite confident that we will withstand the physical onslaught - The packs are evenly matched for size and power but we are more mobile - SA have In du Toit an absolute beast of a man with superhuman work rate but even the SA heavy ball carriers must surely shudder at the thought of facing Sam Underhill - if you go through the AB game in slow motion you will realise that the amount , number and quality of Tank Killer tackles he put in was unprecedented for a game at this level.
I think that the du Toit/Underhill confrontation is worth the match fee alone ( and I hear they are selling at £10k on the resale market)
 
Ford has just been a far better player than Slade this tournament. I don't think it's very close. Defense, distribution, pace, everything.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Sale are flying Ben out to Japan for the final - wonder if we can hide him in the changing rooms and swap the twins at half time without anyone realising
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Nice touch
 
Play Ford, get off to a flyer let SA play catch up all game in a side that's struggled in attack against worthy opponents. I don't know how anything else can be the plan, getting ready for and playing in an arm wrestle is exactly where SA want us and they'd be laughing at that kind of selection.
 
ncurd said:
One story not mentioned yet this thread, Eddie Jones is the first head coach to be involved in the final twice (as head coach). If England lose you have to feel sorry for him after such a successful career to miss out on top prize twice.

If he does win does he retire? Surely nothing else he can do now.
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Back to back with England please
 
Dave Davies said:
What do the odds-makers say about this match? Is England favored to win?

From the Saracens winning the Heineken Cup to the Prem Cup to this, it feels like England is taking back the rugby world...
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From what i can see this early,

England are 11/20 to win
South Africa are 8/5 to win

England clear favourites.
 
Tbh at this stage both teams have to say they will win without being accused of arrogance. It's the World Cup Final, if you go in thinking you won't win unless it's an upset then you're already at a huge disadvantage. The only way it's becomes arrogance is if you say you will win comfortably or that the other side aren't good enough.

For me simply, England will win as I believe this is an excellent group of players who have played some fantastic rugby this year and in this tournament. I think England will be too strong for S.A, but it certainly won't be easy and they will have to earn it.
 
Goodey said:
Ford has just been a far better player than Slade this tournament. I don't think it's very close. Defense, distribution, pace, everything.
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That is true but can Ford really handle Allende running down his channel ? Not convinced . We already know what the saffers are going to do - if we were confident that our pack will get on top of the Bokk pack then I agree this selection conundrum would not be an issue but I reckon the pack battle will be 50/50 and the Saffers will have ball to play with ( unlike the Aussies and the kiwis who were conprehensively shut out of the game.
I know that Ford has looked good and that it would be harsh to "drop" him to a finisher but I think this is the right call for this game as I think du toit and Vermeulen are going to go down the 10 channel - I think Tuilagi at 12 takes care of Allende .
 
Tayga said:
That is true but can Ford really handle Allende running down his channel ? Not convinced . We already know what the saffers are going to do - if we were confident that our pack will get on top of the Bokk pack then I agree this selection conundrum would not be an issue but I reckon the pack battle will be 50/50 and the Saffers will have ball to play with ( unlike the Aussies and the kiwis who were conprehensively shut out of the game.
I know that Ford has looked good and that it would be harsh to "drop" him to a finisher but I think this is the right call for this game as I think du toit and Vermeulen are going to go down the 10 channel - I think Tuilagi at 12 takes care of Allende .
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All this talk of who's weak and who's strong gets me even more fired up. 1 to 23, man for man, we have the ability, we have the opportunity, and boy do we have the heart. Like all bullies they feed off weakness, show no weakness, show no fear, and grind them into the dirt. WE ARE ENGLAND
 
Goodey said:
England 1.5, RSA 2.88. Which is about 1/2 and 9/5 respectively in old money.

England aren't as strongly favoured as NZ were to win the semi final, though.

It must be just the semis talking there because pre world cup you'd have said England-SA is a 50-50 game.
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England win about 65% of the time to South Africa's 35% in easier to interpret money!

I agree with your last sentance - I said exactly that in the predictions thread vefore the start of the tournament.
 
A
Tayga said:
That is true but can Ford really handle Allende running down his channel ? Not convinced . We already know what the saffers are going to do - if we were confident that our pack will get on top of the Bokk pack then I agree this selection conundrum would not be an issue but I reckon the pack battle will be 50/50 and the Saffers will have ball to play with ( unlike the Aussies and the kiwis who were conprehensively shut out of the game.
I know that Ford has looked good and that it would be harsh to "drop" him to a finisher but I think this is the right call for this game as I think du toit and Vermeulen are going to go down the 10 channel - I think Tuilagi at 12 takes care of Allende .
Click to expand...

Are you seriously still questioning Ford's defence? Getting a bit ridiculous now after consistent performances that he's still being suggested as the weaklink. Almost every game he's started someone has said this a it's proved unfounded. I'd actually like some better reasoning for once than gut feeling, or it's what I think because it's not a good enough reason anymore. Guy proves himself over and over again, so prove that he isn't good enough.
 
Tayga said:
That is true but can Ford really handle Allende running down his channel ? Not convinced . We already know what the saffers are going to do - if we were confident that our pack will get on top of the Bokk pack then I agree this selection conundrum would not be an issue but I reckon the pack battle will be 50/50 and the Saffers will have ball to play with ( unlike the Aussies and the kiwis who were conprehensively shut out of the game.
I know that Ford has looked good and that it would be harsh to "drop" him to a finisher but I think this is the right call for this game as I think du toit and Vermeulen are going to go down the 10 channel - I think Tuilagi at 12 takes care of Allende .
Click to expand...
The ozzies had over 60% of the ball and Kewis over 40% so I dont see you argument
 
Tayga said:
I wonder if EJ is going to revert back to Farrell at fly half and play MT and HS in the centres ?
I think it is pretty clear how SA are going to play - try to beat us up in the pack and box kick and chase us down all game long - when SA do go beyond Pollard they will try to batter our 10/12 axis with De Allende .
I think EJ will reason that we are going to have a slug fest at least at the beginning and that he can afford the luxury of bringing Ford on later to either control the game or open it up.
Click to expand...

It would all seem a bit... 1991 to do that - but in reverse

Tayga said:
That is true but can Ford really handle Allende running down his channel ?
Click to expand...
Name me one player (other than Hughes in 1 match when he was told to go tackle high) who he's failed to handle?
He's been a short-arse for his entire career, and yet he's only failed to handle it on 1 occassion, at club level, under insane orders.
 

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