[2021 Six Nations] England vs Italy (13/02/21)

[klitarris]

I think the best way to describe selection is that its's a bit 'meh'

Yeah, for one of the first times i can remember i am not excited about watching an England match. The combination of the selections and the expected gameplan is exactly that: 'meh'.

One of my biggest issues is that I'm trying to get my 6 year old son into rugby and I want to sit down with him and watch a match to get him excited for playing it but at the moment all it is going to do is put him off. He's got a limited attention span at the best of times but England matches are so dull at the moment!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Unless he actually get's on the field this 6 nations he can still play for Italy though right?

Aye, and I hope he does tbh
He'd be an instant starter with them - and might actually give them some go forward considering they use Canna as crashball

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Called it, with Odogwu
We named him in the squad because he was set to play for Italy this 6N and EJ didn't want that (but not enough to actually use him)
He should be on the bench for this game with Ewels gone (or one of Earl/Willis, but Ewels would be my choice)

In fairness if Odogwu's only in camp to keep him away from Italy I'd prefer he didn't get capped so he can still go and have an international career with Italy afterwards. I'm not a fan of players choosing this late in their life who they want to play for but I'm even less of a fan of promising players getting 1 cap for a top rugby nation and then getting binned off when they could've contributed for years to a rugby nation in more need of the talent.

 

[Scotty]

Oof. LCD starting and Willis in the 23 are just about my only positives.

My thoughts exactly! Maybe earl and Willis on the bench but then

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm really not sure what Jones is trying to achieve, but in terms of this match.....

Ita are inexperienced and poor. A few nice passages of play, but Fra walloped them in Rome without really bothering to get out of 3rd gear.

We're playing them at HQ with one of our most experienced teams ever, many of whom played on a RWC final not so long ago. We'll win, but there is no excuse for not putting Ita to the sword with a performance of conviction, accuracy and panache. There really isn't, this should be men against boys.

Jones has backed himself into a corner though and even if we do clout Ita that tells us little about how we'll do in future games against better opposition.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Called it, with Odogwu
We named him in the squad because he was set to play for Italy this 6N and EJ didn't want that (but not enough to actually use him)
He should be on the bench for this game with Ewels gone (or one of Earl/Willis, but Ewels would be my choice)

Gotta keep down the team who are set to be his biggest rivals on his current trajectory?

Yeah but to be fair it's hard to cap South Africans under 25 when they need to do their residency period.

But, equally, you wait until your residency guys are 30 and confirmed it be **** before capping them.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Gotta keep down the team who are set to be his biggest rivals on his current trajectory?


But, equally, you wait until your residency guys are 30 and confirmed it be **** before capping them.

Wales have made an art of capping 30+ New Zealander's.....
Might see another one this weekend.

 

[Reiser99]

Just sigh...I could easily just repeat what's already been said.

Jones will only have himself to blame when it comes crashing down.

 

[Wasps92]

Lawrence dropped, **** off Jones you clown.

 

[Scotty]

Called it, with Odogwu
We named him in the squad because he was set to play for Italy this 6N and EJ didn't want that (but not enough to actually use him)
He should be on the bench for this game with Ewels gone (or one of Earl/Willis, but Ewels would be my choice)

I agree he should have had a chance but i dont think EJ is keeping him from Italy but more has **** the bed on losing the Scotland and doubled down on selection. Keeping Billy Youngs and Faz in the starting team and dropping Lawrence. This team sends the worse message.

Can Odogwu and Randall leave camp now and go speak to Italy and Wales? Then maybe they make the next game? Tbf they are young and if they keep form they will both get a chance with England.

But FFS lawes at 6! Wouldnt have complained if lawes came in for hill really both class both good in different ways but stopping the development of Willis and Earl is rediculous.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Just sigh...I could easily just repeat what's already been said.

Jones will only have himself to blame when it comes crashing down.

The problem/maybe good thing, is that the actual players of the squad are so good that they will always get decent enough finishes to just get by. I can't see them going out of the group stages or finishing 5th in the 6 nations.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Well Jones was always going to be stubborn. Really want to see the back of him and Farrell now.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Wales have made an art of capping 30+ New Zealander's.....
Might see another one this weekend.

Yeah Holhololola or whatever his name is has managed to wear both NZ and Tongan shirts in the past which is pretty good going even by Welsh standards. Although residency qualified, authorities are rumoured to still be hunting for his Granny's birth certificate

Which has nothing to do with Eng v Ita but is just a bit more interesting.

 

[Reiser99]

The problem/maybe good thing, is that the actual players of the squad are so good that they will always get decent enough finishes to just get by. I can't see them going out of the group stages or finishing 5th in the 6 nations.

Definite problem, because they should be achieving more. Don't want to imply that we're better than other teams or they aren't good, but considering how good some of these players are the performances should be far better. Jones is crippling them.

 

[Wendigo7]

He's nearly impossible to drop isn't he?

We had this issue in 2013/14 when Ford emerged and it's not really gone away, they just moved him to 12 which was convenient because we didn't have one, but it's biting us on the ass here.

At what point bar Itoje do the sarries lot get dropped? It's nearly impossible for a kid to even get in, especially in Sarries positions.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Oliver Madden]

I'm fed up with Eddie Jones. This team needs new leadership. We need a coach who actually picks players on form and not reputation. I never want England to do badly but if losing to Wales, France and Ireland meant getting rid of EJ I'd be open to it. I just hope we don't aimlessly kick the ball away any more. Despite my criticisms of the team put out we have got some wonderful players in the backs - start to use them.

 

[Wendigo7]

Pat Lam or the wasps head coach?

 

[ALJ]

Well I didn't get it 100% right on prediction but (as I do say so myself) got Lawrence/Ford and Wilson/Lawes bang on (didn't think they'd double down on the Sarries with MV nor did I think LCD would get a start).

It's all a bit depressing tbh and a 6/2 bench split - wtf?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Definite problem, because they should be achieving more. Don't want to imply that we're better than other teams or they aren't good, but considering how good some of these players are the performances should be far better. Jones is crippling them.

Exactly that. When a team is achieving less than the sum of its parts the root problem is invariably with the leadership. Doesn't matter whether it's rugby or a call centre.

Rightly or wrongly sports coaches now have short shelf lives. Before us, Jones reputation was one of immediate impact that he was unable to sustain. From what I can see he's about to embark on his 6th 6N campaign and this is the longest he's ever held a job. I'm not necessarily calling for his head right now, but he will undoubtedly be beyond his shelf life come 2023.

EDIT. The real build up to 23 will start before long. If a change of head coach is going to happen they should be in situ by the Autumn to allow them a fair crack. But I can't realistically see the RFU firing Jones unless results really take a turn for the worse (partly on cost grounds) and I doubt Jones ego would allow him to walk away.