England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[BenJeffrey]

"Eddie Jones has sought help from an expert in brain research, to try and work out why his England players are slow to adapt to problems on the pitch" - Just seen on RugbyPass.

Eddie, it's called fatigue. You really have to wonder don't you.

 

[RedruthRFC]

"Eddie Jones has sought help from an expert in brain research, to try and work out why his England players are slow to adapt to problems on the pitch" - Just seen on RugbyPass.

Eddie, it's called fatigue. You really have to wonder don't you.

If it was fatigue, you'd expect all teams to suffer similarly. England are many things, but noticeably less fit than their opponents is not one of them. My best guess would be that English players are for the most part rugby automatons who have been told exactly what to do since early academy days, so aren't equipped to think for themselves. This manifested itself back in 2007 when Ashton tried to get them to play heads up rugby, I don't see what has changed in the intervening 11 years.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Itoje's nap try celebration shows what he thinks of the fatigue talk.

Eddie Jones:

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Itoje's nap try celebration shows what he thinks of the fatigue talk.

Eddie Jones:

Eddie isn't saying it's fatigue though is he?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Isn't he just doing exactly what he did with Japan; s&c wise... flogging them, then using a peaking program for the RWC?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Isn't he just doing exactly what he did with Japan; s&c wise... flogging them, then using a peaking program for the RWC?

Mayeb I don't know.

But he is a top head coach with proven success at this level, but on the other hand their is a bunch of nobody rugby jounro's and players who can't get a job in punditry who think he is always wrong now he has lost a few games.........

I can't decide who to trust!

 

[RedruthRFC]

Does this new appointment remind anyone of the addition of Sherylle Calder to Eddie Jones' team? No doubt the players are performing better in the drills that she has given them, but it's difficult to measure how this translates onto the field. I can't say as I've picked up on any appreciable improvement in skills or vision. Having just reread an article about her appointment, I see that she was contracted until the World Cup, does anyone know if she is still involved.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Mayeb I don't know.

But he is a top head coach with proven success at this level, but on the other hand their is a bunch of nobody rugby jounro's and players who can't get a job in punditry who think he is always wrong now he has lost a few games.........

I can't decide who to trust!

I don't know about rugby journalists, but this is typical of the level of thinking on social media. Before the first loss to Ireland, there were swathes of people who used England's unbeaten run as vindication of anything he did or said (along with the "he's an international coach, you're not" mantra). Now England are on a poor run, this is being used as justification to rubbish everything he does or says. Heaven forbid people should form their own opinions on a case basis based on the individual situations!

On the issue of training injuries, neither Craig or Jones come out with much credit from what they have said to the media IMO. If Craig's case is compelling, surely he could have cobbled together some stats to back up / strengthen his claims. If Jones is so confident that he's in the right, he could have called on Craig for these kind of statistics and defended his approach with his own. The "what does he know?" sort of attitude is only going to make him sound bullish / defensive.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Eddie isn't saying it's fatigue though is he?

Aye, I meant itoje was poo pooing the press

EJ is saying the players don't know how to deviate from a plan but they can at club level so maybe it's his coaching and not the players

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Isn't he just doing exactly what he did with Japan; s&c wise... flogging them, then using a peaking program for the RWC?

They finished 3rd in their group too

Obvs he wants them to peak for the RWC. But flogging players in training during an incessant playing schedule is just mad. Apart from the physical injuries never underestimate mental exhaustion. Less is often more.

With both clubs and the PRA bleating about it, it's a pretty safe bet players have been kicking off behind closed doors. Who in the squad has the stature of a Johnson, Dayglo or Leonard to stand up to Jones?

When they come, the books will be an interesting read.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

They finished 3rd in their group too

Obvs he wants them to peak for the RWC. But flogging players in training during an incessant playing schedule is just mad. Apart from the physical injuries never underestimate mental exhaustion. Less is often more.

With both clubs and the PRA bleating about it, it's a pretty safe bet players have been kicking off behind closed doors. Who in the squad has the stature of a Johnson, Dayglo or Leonard to stand up to Jones?

When they come, the books will be an interesting read.

If the clubs and PRL really cared they would shorten the season, or set up game limits.

 

[Which Tyler]

If the clubs and PRL really cared they would shorten the season, or set up game limits.

Absolutely this

 

[Nudger]

Isn't he just doing exactly what he did with Japan; s&c wise... flogging them, then using a peaking program for the RWC?

He said that at the beginning of the year

 

[Which Tyler]

He said that at the beginning of the year

As a rule of thumb I take the things "Eddie Says" with a large pile of salt; but... when his words match his actions, I assume he may have actually been telling the truth. Especially if it also obeys the rules of logic (even if it isn't what I would like to see done)

 

[ratsapprentice]

Edwards has made no secret of his desire for a change of scenery and was interviewed for the same position at Harlequins. He has also been strongly linked with a return to Wigan Warriors, whose outgoing coach Shaun Wane appears to be the other strongest candidate to replace Gustard.

Meanwhile, the latest addition to England's coaching staff, attacking consultant Scott Wisemantel, is targeting a "Cinderella" first series victory in South Africa. Wisemantel, who has previously worked with Jones with Australian and Japan, is on only a five-week deal and has been given the responsibility of increasing England's try-scoring rate to three a game against the Springboks.

Both from a Tele article.

Shaun Wane to England? Would be utterly astonished...

Fairly specific target for Wisemantel.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Both from a Tele article.

Shaun Wane to England? Would be utterly astonished...

Fairly specific target for Wisemantel.

Interesting Wane been linked heavily with a Scotland job.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Shields had a very good game in a losing sise today. Worth watching if you've not seen him before.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If the clubs and PRL really cared they would shorten the season, or set up game limits.

Fair enough, but whether we like it or not the season and system is what it is and the constraints under which Jones has to work. Flogging players during the season just doesn't make sense to me.

Of course if we win the RWC I will put Jones on a pedestal and accept that he knows a bit more than I do. But right now I'm concerned:

We have the fatigue / injury issues.

We're on a losing run. More importantly our performances have regressed and too many positions aren't yet nailed down.

He's made little progress in sorting out some glaringly obvious issues - back row balance, back up SH, past it captain etc.

We have no permanent attack coach and the defence coach has just walked.

His track record, especially recently, is one short term appointment after another. Partly a reflection of modern sport, but equally what's there to back up the initial whirlwind impact? Was everyone seduced by the absolutely stunning (but freakish) Japan win over SA? That gave him massive profile at a time when we were at our lowest ebb. Maybe he's best suited to the "impact" role he had with SA in the 07 RWC?

It always feels like his way or the highway which is fine, but only up to a point. A quote from our new (temporary) attack coach is quite telling:

"It is not easy [standing up to Jones], but that's a real relationship isn't it?" And as I said the other day I'm not sure Borthwick or many of the players have the character to do it.

SA is going to be a very interesting watch.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It is starting to feel pretty 2015.
The run up to the world cup should be polishing, not still testing out/not knowing who our best side is.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

It is starting to feel pretty 2015.
The run up to the world cup should be polishing, not still testing out/not knowing who our best side is.

Maybe, but I think this tour is the deciding factor. Not if we win or not like everyone keeps saying, but more sorting out those last couple issues.

The way I see it, the majority of the team is actually pretty much sorted, but will just get finalised in SA.

Mako, Hartley and an fit on form Cole will be the front row. Maybe Sinckler, but not a huge issue there.

Second row will be itoje and Lawes or Launch (whoever is on form) not an issue here

Back row is where the fun starts. If Billy, Robshaw and Shield work well, then that will be the back row in my eyes with Simmonds on the bench. A question mark, but will get sorted out.

Youngs is 9, with care 21. Not an issue

10 and 12 will get sorted out on this tour imo. If ford and Farrell slot back in then that's what we will see at the WC. If not, then it will be Teo. An issue, but will be sorted out in SA.

13. JJ or two. We will have to wait for the autumn for this one unfortunately.

Wingers - may and Watson with dalyDal the bench. Nowell in form could mean questions, but not an issue by any means.

Full back - brown will be full back. People won't like it, but it's gonna happen.


Basically, the only question I expect to be left with after this tour is 13. Don't be so pessemistic Olly