[RWC2019][Pool A] Round 2 - Japan vs. Ireland (28/09/2019)

[Shimano]

The Oggmonster-san, thank you!
The delayed post is because it took four hours to go back my home and after that enjoy watching the video and drinking.

咲をたくさん飲みましたか？

 

[Larksea]

crazy match, was watching it cheering for Japan but also fully aware that if Japan won it meant a likely ABs vs. Ireland QF which I'd rather the AB's avoided. Not because I think the AB's would lose but it means 3 huge matches in a row rather than 2 if we had to play Japan or Scotland. All Due respect to Japan & Scotland. Ireland vs AB's would be worthy of a final, to have a match that big in the QF is going to take some effort when a easier match ramping up your effort a bit from pool play seems the logical ideal scenario.
It was the same experience in 2007 watching Argentina beat France, I wanted Argentina to win but knowing full well that result would mean a france QF, I'd still rather play Ireland than France >.<

A lot to digest in this result, Not Ireland's #1 team for sure but with the limited squad sizes you dont really have "B Teams" in the WC, you can rest a few players but any team you run out is close to your best. There were a lot of front liners out there.
Japan were obviously well prepared for this game, well prepared is not even a good way to describe it. They had very obviously been putting a big focus on this game for many months.
I would say Japan provided a blueprint for rattling the Irish but its not like any team can watch that and come out and play like the Japanese did. The speed of the ball across the park to find points of attack and the continuity to execute their game plan and retain the ball was superb. The ability of Japan to pinpoint lines of attack and avoid being outnumbered by the defense and get the post contact meters needed which are critical against a Rush defense.

This pool isn't done yet Japan still have to face Scotland and Samoa, can they continue to back up with similar performances? Last WC they beat SA but dropped another pool match and failed to make the QF's. I would Say Japan really need to beat Scotland to be sure of a QF. They should beat Samoa but I don't think that's a givin.

 

[petite]

so it's been 2 huge upsets hope to see more it really adds to the comp.
hope both Japan aND Uruguay Can keep it up next match

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

crazy match, was watching it cheering for Japan but also fully aware that if Japan won it meant a likely ABs vs. Ireland QF which I'd rather the AB's avoided. Not because I think the AB's would lose but it means 3 huge matches in a row rather than 2 if we had to play Japan or Scotland. All Due respect to Japan & Scotland. Ireland vs AB's would be worthy of a final, to have a match that big in the QF is going to take some effort when a easier match ramping up your effort a bit from pool play seems the logical ideal scenario.
It was the same experience in 2007 watching Argentina beat France, I wanted Argentina to win but knowing full well that result would mean a france QF, I'd still rather play Ireland than France >.<

A lot to digest in this result, Not Ireland's #1 team for sure but with the limited squad sizes you dont really have "B Teams" in the WC, you can rest a few players but any team you run out is close to your best. There were a lot of front liners out there.
Japan were obviously well prepared for this game, well prepared is not even a good way to describe it. They had very obviously been putting a big focus on this game for many months.
I would say Japan provided a blueprint for rattling the Irish but its not like any team can watch that and come out and play like the Japanese did. The speed of the ball across the park to find points of attack and the continuity to execute their game plan and retain the ball was superb. The ability of Japan to pinpoint lines of attack and avoid being outnumbered by the defense and get the post contact meters needed which are critical against a Rush defense.

This pool isn't done yet Japan still have to face Scotland and Samoa, can they continue to back up with similar performances? Last WC they beat SA but dropped another pool match and failed to make the QF's. I would Say Japan really need to beat Scotland to be sure of a QF. They should beat Samoa but I don't think that's a givin.

Bar injuries it was a full team. 3rd choice 10 and 12 and down one backrow who's since been sent home.

Japan ambushed us big time and Joseph said as much, no complaints, we've done it to plenty of touring in the past.

The players are there to win a QF for us but as a collective and on current form we're millions of miles away. If we face ye I'd fear a beating like you gave France, there's no love lost between the teams.

 

[rugga658]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49850814

"Conan was injured after a team-mate trod on him in Thursday's training"

McStander

 

[TRF_Olyy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49850814

"Conan was injured after a team-mate trod on him in Thursday's training"

McStander

Notice you don't have much to say about the Japan side's playerbase?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Great game.
I was surprised at the ease with which japan made it over the advantage line.
Ireland prevented japan getting fast ball almost all of the time, yet it wasn't mattering.

Do we think Schmidt has the ability to quickly adapt the game plan? Because he might have to; they don't look as invincible as they did last year. They need to find a way to counter the type of attack japan brought. They need to hold onto the ball more. But for that to be effective they need to find some ways to make ground when they have the ball. They possibly have ways, and are just keeping them up their sleeves at this point. Brave decision not to use them at the end of this game though.

Ringrose clearly tried to take it into his own hands to win this game. He was everywhere toward the end. Still not super effective though, such was the quality of the defence. Ryan too, but again ineffective.

I would be fascinated to hear from the players how tiring it is to play in these conditions. I'd particularly be fascinated to hear from different players as it seems some handle it a lot better than others.

Lafaele continues to be one of the stars of the tournament with two standout performances. Leitch pretty great too.

Apologies if all of these things have been discussed; without spending two hours searching I can only find discussion about referee decisions on here. Ironically, there are also pages worth of discussion about discussions about referee decisions, to which I have just added to. But, please note, I have also just started a discussion about discussions about discussions about referee decisions. Clearly I win.

 

[Paulo]

Sunwolves defeated the Chiefs in New Zealand this year didn't they? Previously defeated the Blues at home and in Tokyo had consistently some of the largest crowds in the competition. But regardless, I am not speaking of today, I am speaking of the next few RWC cycles until Japanese boys who have been inspired become old enough to play professionally.

The Top League is reportedly to be replaced with a professional league and due to decisions made by SANZAAR you may be tuning into it if you want to watch SA, NZ and Oz internationals playing. I'll take no pleasure in that other than having a wee chuckle at those without the vision to see what was under their nose.

The issue is that Rugby is a business. The SR comp is bankrolled by the RC, as the RC teams benefit from development of players through SR. Japan is not in the RC so does not contribute in the same way. They instead got charged a 'fee' to participate in SR, the JRFU decided not to continue paying this post 2020, preferring instead on it's internal competitions to develop players. The fact SA refused to travel to Japan to play them, making them instead play in Singapore shows they were kinda treated like second class participants anyway and may have contributed to them opting out.

The answer may have been to introduce them to the RC, but in an already congested international season, I think the preferred option was not to expand the RC, but to develop the Nations Cup - or what ever they were calling it. We have certain scared NH sides, afraid of promotion/relegation to thank for curtailing that.

 

[User1245]

Go on Japan! What a match!

Maybe they can quickly change the movie they're making about beating the Boks to this victory instead? Bigger score line and all that.

 

[Derpus]

Schmidt having a good ol' whinge about the ref makes me feel a little better about Cheika.

 

[Derpus]

The issue is that Rugby is a business. The SR comp is bankrolled by the RC, as the RC teams benefit from development of players through SR. Japan is not in the RC so does not contribute in the same way. They instead got charged a 'fee' to participate in SR, the JRFU decided not to continue paying this post 2020, preferring instead on it's internal competitions to develop players. The fact SA refused to travel to Japan to play them, making them instead play in Singapore shows they were kinda treated like second class participants anyway and may have contributed to them opting out.

The answer may have been to introduce them to the RC, but in an already congested international season, I think the preferred option was not to expand the RC, but to develop the Nations Cup - or what ever they were calling it. We have certain scared NH sides, afraid of promotion/relegation to thank for curtailing that.

Super Rugby is dead and should not form the basis of future decisions.

We should introduce two more teams into the RC and reduce it to 1 match per team like the 6 nations (Fiji and Japan, or maybe the US)

I for one would celebrate not having to watch Australia lose to NZ three times a year.

 

[Paulo]

Super Rugby is dead and should not form the basis of future decisions.

We should introduce two more teams into the RC and reduce it to 1 match per team like the 6 nations (Fiji and Japan, or maybe the US)

I for one would celebrate not having to watch Australia lose to NZ three times a year.

Fiji and Japan, team wise, I think would work. And I would like to see it. Although logistics wise I'm not sure playing in Fiji is sustainable financially. And without SR, where are the Fiji players coming from? Mitre 10? NRC?

Without SR to be the bridge between national competitions and international I think we may see the decline in SH rugby even more so than we are seeing now.

And unless you want to move to a one game winner takes all Bledisloe, or a best of 2 game series, you may need to keep watching Australia lose to NZ 3 times a year.

Now that they have scraped the nations cup, I think we could try and incorporate Japan and Fiji into the RC, keep SR but manage it slightly differently. Let SA go north and break up SANZAAR. Stop the end of year touring of the NH. They don't want a best of the best series regularly, so be it. We can meet every 4 yrs in the RWC. Without the northern tours, there is more time in the calendar to have the extended RC and modified SR.

 

[Derpus]

^^^^
Happy to scrap the Bled altogether.

I agree with your points about SR being necessary. I just don't think it matters. The games outside of Japan are averaging about 8k in attendance and rate poorly on TV.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

^^^^
Happy to scrap the Bled altogether.

I agree with your points about SR being necessary. I just don't think it matters. The games outside of Japan are averaging about 8k in attendance and rate poorly on TV.

That's the spirit. If the Wobblies can't win it back, just get rid of it.

 

[Derpus]

That's the spirit. If the Wobblies can't win it back, just get rid of it.

Well, maybe.

We can't sell out a 25k stadium at the moment and being forced to play 3 games a year which are almost guaranteed losses does not help.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Well, maybe.

We can't sell out a 25k stadium at the moment and being forced to play 3 games a year which are almost guaranteed losses does not help.

I was being facetious.

Still, I get Union isn't or isn't getting any more popular in Australia, what with other sports which Australia can win at either internally (AFL) or internationally (Cricket and League). Union coming a distant 4th compared to those sports.

What would Australia's reaction be if England said the same thing after all those years we didn't win the Ashes? I would hazard a guess your fans and media would have an absolute field day.

Is getting rid of the Bled the answer to popularity of Union in Aus? Of course it's never nice to keep losing to your little brother. But I think getting rid of it would send a real defeatist message and would be the final nail in the coffin for Union in Australia.

Also, How is the NRC going atm in terms of growing the sport popularity wise?

 

[Derpus]

Yeah i don't think its a realistic option, but personally, i would not miss it.

NRC has proved useful for finding and developing more talent, but i don't think it has done anything at all in terms of growing the sports popularity.

 

[bushytop]

Go on Japan! What a match!

Maybe they can quickly change the movie they're making about beating the Boks to this victory instead? Bigger score line and all that.

Sequel

 

[Umaga's Witness]

to the irish.
Ireland looked clueless on attack after the 20th minute. is this cos sexton 's absence? is he so important to the team? Japan did play very well. but something didn't work for the Irish offence. no ideas, so surprise.

Bump, Irish or other nh experts

Watched this 2nd time round and made the following observations:

1. Japan are very confident in their individual talent.
2. Their set piece is solid.
3. Their defence in particular their scramble defence is as good as anyone's.
4. They are fit and are happy playing 80 minutes at 97 lions tempo (millenials watch the dvd to understand)
5. The Japanese backrow is awesome then they bring Leitch on.
6. Ireland were not that bad they just didn't expect the tempo Japan played at.

Are you saying the back row wasn't good after bringing Leitch in, or that it was already good before and then just got better?

I wonder if this win for Japan has sapped them a bit. It took a lot out of them. Might not bode well for the next game.

I wonder the same thing. They played their top team against Russia, so really can't afford not to play their top team in other games. They'll have a disadvantage in that sense, but their goal is probably to make the quarterfinals and playing their best team in each pool game is the best strategy for that. But compare that to Scotland who have the depth to rest players against Russia, the week before they play japan.

 

[bushytop]

Bump, Irish or other nh experts?

Probably had 'some' effect, he's a great player... I can't stop thinking that the conditions were the biggest factor though. Ireland are a very fit team but they looked out on their feet yesterday. The humidity in particular seems to be different to anything the players have had to handle before.