[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 4: Wales v Ireland (11/02/2017)

[dullonien]

George North 9 imo, mom for me looking back , he did everything great yesterday , found space , offered support and showed he still has the power to knock over most , also he was great in defence, I think he deserves a 9 especially after all the flak he received for the Scotland game in which he was rushed back for.

Maybe, but I think he's capable of much better again, and a 9/10 wouldn't leave much room for improvement.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Your right. It's not end of world. Issue is more this has been on cards a while, we've been on inconsistent dip.

Issues that need to be sorted.
1. Develop a 2nd choice 9 that can be trusted at 9. Murray was left on 15 mins too long last night despite it being clear he should be taken off.
2. Pick on form. Guys like Byrne and Sweetnam even Conway I'd argue should've seen time. Kearney came in with poor form, Zebo came in with all his form at 15. Sean O'Brien came in based on reputation nothing else.
3. Trust guys on bench. Scannell should've been used more as Best was poor. Marmion should've seen more time.
4. We need to evolve our gameplan. It's too static and is being sussed.
5. Loosen the regime a bit.

Now that's not all aimed at Schmidt. I accept players on field take some blame and other coached too. The main reason Schmidt gets flak is he's the man who oversees the whole lot so of course is seen as responsible. But look you don't become a bad coach overnight. I'd be more worried about defence at moment. Farrell is under pressure.
I think as a whole we need to sort away form. 25% record excluding Italy is desperate.

I think the overreaction following two away losses to teams who are now in the World's top 6 is incredible. On these points here:

1. How do you do that? Only NZ have two 9's anywhere near Murray's level, and Marmion is trusted, I imagine Murray said he was fine to stay on, they gave him 5 mins after half time to see if the break helped, it didn't he left the field of play.
2. Kearney was in some pretty impressive form based on the Autumn and his performances for Leinster and definitely hasn't been the biggest problem in the back three, Zebo's form was outstanding but he's had a downright poor tournament whether it be at wing or his cameo at 15. SO'B was picked based on Autumn form, having come in cold 4 months prior to the tournament, you're basically asking Schmidt to disregard the past and fortune tell by not picking him and the backrow wasn't the reason, we had plenty of territory and possession and they made metres carrying. Picking on form is good in theory but you have to pick lads who'll be up to the level, Conway isn't, he's another workhorse with no real threat, it'd be like going back to picking Dave Kearney. Sweetnam will be but was injured at the start of the tournament and had maybe 3 good halves at best in his three games during the championship, not exactly putting himself in a position where he can't not be picked. Byrne is probably in the best form of Irish wingers but he has some horrendous defensive reads and doesn't fit the bill yet.
3. I agree with this, it starts with picking a positive bench first, guys like Bowe don't fit that.
4. No we don't, 7 line breaks is what Wales had, we forced plenty of overlaps too, a personnel change is needed in the back three so we can become more clinical, Byrne and Sweetnam are about to enter the highest level of rugby they've played so far in the next couple months, if they learn on the job they'll fit a back three with Payne beautifully, Murphy or POM are needed for the line out too, the system will work with more composure.
5. Nothing statement.

The Irish reaction to this game completely disregards luck, we won the penalty battle 10-4 yet lost the YC count 1-0, that doesn't add up, our best player left the pitch for a HIA and his replacement had a rush of blood to the head, let Wales score and ended our early dominance, our 12 had a similar rush of blood and butchered a certain try. That right there is worth 22 points and is down to individual errors and things outside of our control, if they went our way it would have been a win, if one or two went our way it could have been a win. Apart from needing POM for the lineout, not that it got better when he came on, I don't think the coaches did a lot wrong in the last 6 weeks, inconsistent individual displays, not having any replacements for misfiring guys without obvious flaws in their game and individual ill-discipline and errors are why we're 2-2 rather than 4-0, we don't have the talented player base that England or NZ do so this will happen, the challenge is to get to a point where it doesn't for 12 months in 2019, that means a new back three, a bit of tinkering in the pack and replacing retiring players, we're set up to do it and it will happen.

 

[Makos]

What a bugger, was looking forward to an Ireland vs England unofficial final. The stage was set, the fixture was perfect, England about to break the record..

But another false Irish dawn, very disappointing to lose to such an average Welsh side as well.

Bugger.

 

[mosfeldt]

I wouldn't exactly call this an average Welsh side, to be fair.

 

[Reiser99]

I think the table is kind of a fair reflection. Ignoring England who have played badly in all but one game, yet managed to win. You have 4 good teams separated by a point, all of which have had some great moments and some bad ones. I think this is the difference at the moment and why New Zealand have been no.1 for so long, they find a way to win no matter what. Honestly if some games had gone slightly differently, you could have had any of the top 5 this year winning. I think the difference is England have taken their chances where as the others have let some slip by and it's cost them dearly.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I think the overreaction following two away losses to teams who are now in the World's top 6 is incredible. On these points here:

1. How do you do that? Only NZ have two 9's anywhere near Murray's level, and Marmion is trusted, I imagine Murray said he was fine to stay on, they gave him 5 mins after half time to see if the break helped, it didn't he left the field of play.
2. Kearney was in some pretty impressive form based on the Autumn and his performances for Leinster and definitely hasn't been the biggest problem in the back three, Zebo's form was outstanding but he's had a downright poor tournament whether it be at wing or his cameo at 15. SO'B was picked based on Autumn form, having come in cold 4 months prior to the tournament, you're basically asking Schmidt to disregard the past and fortune tell by not picking him and the backrow wasn't the reason, we had plenty of territory and possession and they made metres carrying. Picking on form is good in theory but you have to pick lads who'll be up to the level, Conway isn't, he's another workhorse with no real threat, it'd be like going back to picking Dave Kearney. Sweetnam will be but was injured at the start of the tournament and had maybe 3 good halves at best in his three games during the championship, not exactly putting himself in a position where he can't not be picked. Byrne is probably in the best form of Irish wingers but he has some horrendous defensive reads and doesn't fit the bill yet.
3. I agree with this, it starts with picking a positive bench first, guys like Bowe don't fit that.
4. No we don't, 7 line breaks is what Wales had, we forced plenty of overlaps too, a personnel change is needed in the back three so we can become more clinical, Byrne and Sweetnam are about to enter the highest level of rugby they've played so far in the next couple months, if they learn on the job they'll fit a back three with Payne beautifully, Murphy or POM are needed for the line out too, the system will work with more composure.
5. Nothing statement.

The Irish reaction to this game completely disregards luck, we won the penalty battle 10-4 yet lost the YC count 1-0, that doesn't add up, our best player left the pitch for a HIA and his replacement had a rush of blood to the head, let Wales score and ended our early dominance, our 12 had a similar rush of blood and butchered a certain try. That right there is worth 22 points and is down to individual errors and things outside of our control, if they went our way it would have been a win, if one or two went our way it could have been a win. Apart from needing POM for the lineout, not that it got better when he came on, I don't think the coaches did a lot wrong in the last 6 weeks, inconsistent individual displays, not having any replacements for misfiring guys without obvious flaws in their game and individual ill-discipline and errors are why we're 2-2 rather than 4-0, we don't have the talented player base that England or NZ do so this will happen, the challenge is to get to a point where it doesn't for 12 months in 2019, that means a new back three, a bit of tinkering in the pack and replacing retiring players, we're set up to do it and it will happen.

I drop in on the Irish threads a fair amount without commenting and I do appreciate your optimistic take on things generally - it is very easy and very common to overreact to a couple of bad results but honestly, I think you're being a little too optimistic here.

Blaming "bad luck" disregards the narrative of the game. Wales played well but they are a team with problems who are kind of papering over them a bit by getting fired up at home, and you know what they didn't play that well. If they'd played that well they wouldn't have given you so many chances to score tries and take them game away from them. But you didn't take them. Four 5 metre lineouts without a try? That's an unforgivable level of wastefulness, especially given you didn't much look like creating tries any other way. I really think you should be more angry at your players and coaches about that.

Ireland have real problems in that backline. I am not - yet - convinced that Ringrose is the second coming he's been made out to be, although I like him. Henshaw is a very good player of a certain style, and it's a style that coaches can build around, I would certainly consider him in front of Farrell for England (although I am less of a Farrell fan than some even now). You have the best 9 and the best 10 (when fit) in the northern hemisphere without doubt. The outside channels, 13,11,14,15 are where the problems seem to lie I think, alongside probably the coaching. Half backs of that quality with a 12 most teams would be pleased to have, playing with good quality ball should not be struggling to score tries - something needs to change, either in the coaching or in the selection in those positions or probably both.

I won't comment on the solution as I'm not familiar enough with the selection options you have but that's my observation of the problems.

BTW, good spot on Jackson's error for the Wales try. I picked up on that straight away but no mention of it in the commentary or any of the writeups that I saw, it was a horrible read from him. Actually I wondered whether he had been spooked out by the Welsh try against England - LW was running that same line, and maybe having video analysed it the Irish didn't expect SW to get the ball, but I digress ...

 

[Goodey]

'England playing badly and still winning' has been overstated I think. That was only really the case against Italy. I don't think there was a big difference between England and Ireland's result against France, and the performance away against a Wales team that lifted up against us was genuinely good, especially against an Ireland side that failed to cope with the same test. It's just the expectations of England are higher now.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think the overreaction following two away losses to teams who are now in the World's top 6 is incredible. On these points here:

1. How do you do that? Only NZ have two 9's anywhere near Murray's level, and Marmion is trusted, I imagine Murray said he was fine to stay on, they gave him 5 mins after half time to see if the break helped, it didn't he left the field of play.
2. Kearney was in some pretty impressive form based on the Autumn and his performances for Leinster and definitely hasn't been the biggest problem in the back three, Zebo's form was outstanding but he's had a downright poor tournament whether it be at wing or his cameo at 15. SO'B was picked based on Autumn form, having come in cold 4 months prior to the tournament, you're basically asking Schmidt to disregard the past and fortune tell by not picking him and the backrow wasn't the reason, we had plenty of territory and possession and they made metres carrying. Picking on form is good in theory but you have to pick lads who'll be up to the level, Conway isn't, he's another workhorse with no real threat, it'd be like going back to picking Dave Kearney. Sweetnam will be but was injured at the start of the tournament and had maybe 3 good halves at best in his three games during the championship, not exactly putting himself in a position where he can't not be picked. Byrne is probably in the best form of Irish wingers but he has some horrendous defensive reads and doesn't fit the bill yet.
3. I agree with this, it starts with picking a positive bench first, guys like Bowe don't fit that.
4. No we don't, 7 line breaks is what Wales had, we forced plenty of overlaps too, a personnel change is needed in the back three so we can become more clinical, Byrne and Sweetnam are about to enter the highest level of rugby they've played so far in the next couple months, if they learn on the job they'll fit a back three with Payne beautifully, Murphy or POM are needed for the line out too, the system will work with more composure.
5. Nothing statement.

The Irish reaction to this game completely disregards luck, we won the penalty battle 10-4 yet lost the YC count 1-0, that doesn't add up, our best player left the pitch for a HIA and his replacement had a rush of blood to the head, let Wales score and ended our early dominance, our 12 had a similar rush of blood and butchered a certain try. That right there is worth 22 points and is down to individual errors and things outside of our control, if they went our way it would have been a win, if one or two went our way it could have been a win. Apart from needing POM for the lineout, not that it got better when he came on, I don't think the coaches did a lot wrong in the last 6 weeks, inconsistent individual displays, not having any replacements for misfiring guys without obvious flaws in their game and individual ill-discipline and errors are why we're 2-2 rather than 4-0, we don't have the talented player base that England or NZ do so this will happen, the challenge is to get to a point where it doesn't for 12 months in 2019, that means a new back three, a bit of tinkering in the pack and replacing retiring players, we're set up to do it and it will happen.

Maybe your right but Scotland aren't a top 6 team are they?
Schmidt's 6N record away is
1/2 vs France and Scotland
0/2 vs England and Wales.
As I said that's not great. There may be excuses but look I'm not hammering anyone they're just facts.
On point 1 if you think he trusted Marmion fair enough. I don't and majority it's fair to say don't think he did. Murray could clearly not pass. I said it here. He was left on 18mins before the sub occured. It nearly cost us a try too.
On 2. The fact is alot changed from Autumn. Not just Schmidt but Ireland have to pick on the now and be brave. Maybe you don't agree fair enough just think form of some guys has been awful and changes can be made mid tournament.
3. We are in agreement but maybe this shows the negative side of central contracts I was informed.
4. We will disagree here. As I said it depands on braveness.
5. The regime comment. I can name check 5 players from 3 provinces who have said they're a tad uncomfortable in camp Ireland because of consequences of mistakes. Is that setting high standards or putting pressure on? I don't know everyone will have opinion different.

On the little errors. Your right it is marginal but it's a game of fine lines. And look we can say what ifs.
As for lineout and scrum when POM came on we caused 2 spillages to them and messy ball. That's an improvement.
For scrum Ryan and Scannell came on and produced monster scrum with Healy. That's what a bench should do

As a whole I'd say coaches are responsible for:
Tactically being poor
Poor backline and attack
Poor defensive tactics
Poor selections and creating competition
Poor use of bench


I accept some may not agree but we can't keep offering excuses. We simply aren't as good as we think. Not as bad either but the proof of a teams standard is results. We beat a terrible SA team away. Huge credit for it as it was 1st time but equally lost next 2. If we were that good we should've pounded them.
NZ did we catch them on hop. Who care we got result. But other than that what gives us any right to think we are better when there's simply no back up. Yhe AIs are hard to judge as SH teams come here and experimentand are looking at longer view

 

[big ginger 8]

Over the last few days I've become convinced that a second distributor outside 10 would make a big difference to our play. Zebo does it a bit but unless you're Shane Williams it's difficult for a winger to it at a continuous level. Therefore we probably need one in the centres or at 15. Unlike others I don't think massive sweeping changes have to be made or even that players are playing at such a level that they demand being dropped but I do think there is something wrong with the makeup of the team at the moment.

Options to come in for this playmaking role would be Payne, Carberry (in before the artist formerly known as cmac95 screams 'HE'S AN OUTHALF'), Olding, Marshall or Zebo (at 15).

As with most players all have their pros and cons.

I am expecting pretty much the same team for next week and totally understand and mostly agree that there shouldn't be any sweeping changes until Japan.

 

[munstermuffin]

Over the last few days I've become convinced that a second distributor outside 10 would make a big difference to our play. Zebo does it a bit but unless you're Shane Williams it's difficult for a winger to it at a continuous level. Therefore we probably need one in the centres or at 15. Unlike others I don't think massive sweeping changes have to be made or even that players are playing at such a level that they demand being dropped but I do think there is something wrong with the makeup of the team at the moment.

Options to come in for this playmaking role would be Payne, Carberry (in before the artist formerly known as cmac95 screams 'HE'S AN OUTHALF'), Olding, Marshall or Zebo (at 15).

As with most players all have their pros and cons.

I am expecting pretty much the same team for next week and totally understand and mostly agree that there shouldn't be any sweeping changes until Japan.

Another option is Rory Scannell at 12. He does it for Munster. But for this we do need change in tactic

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Just on one point, I actually thought Keith Earls had a good game..... then I looked on espn scrum and r=found that he got turned over 4 times.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I drop in on the Irish threads a fair amount without commenting and I do appreciate your optimistic take on things generally - it is very easy and very common to overreact to a couple of bad results but honestly, I think you're being a little too optimistic here.

Blaming "bad luck" disregards the narrative of the game. Wales played well but they are a team with problems who are kind of papering over them a bit by getting fired up at home, and you know what they didn't play that well. If they'd played that well they wouldn't have given you so many chances to score tries and take them game away from them. But you didn't take them. Four 5 metre lineouts without a try? That's an unforgivable level of wastefulness, especially given you didn't much look like creating tries any other way. I really think you should be more angry at your players and coaches about that.

Ireland have real problems in that backline. I am not - yet - convinced that Ringrose is the second coming he's been made out to be, although I like him. Henshaw is a very good player of a certain style, and it's a style that coaches can build around, I would certainly consider him in front of Farrell for England (although I am less of a Farrell fan than some even now). You have the best 9 and the best 10 (when fit) in the northern hemisphere without doubt. The outside channels, 13,11,14,15 are where the problems seem to lie I think, alongside probably the coaching. Half backs of that quality with a 12 most teams would be pleased to have, playing with good quality ball should not be struggling to score tries - something needs to change, either in the coaching or in the selection in those positions or probably both.

I won't comment on the solution as I'm not familiar enough with the selection options you have but that's my observation of the problems.

BTW, good spot on Jackson's error for the Wales try. I picked up on that straight away but no mention of it in the commentary or any of the writeups that I saw, it was a horrible read from him. Actually I wondered whether he had been spooked out by the Welsh try against England - LW was running that same line, and maybe having video analysed it the Irish didn't expect SW to get the ball, but I digress ...

Its more of a reaction to this, this and that are wrong and need change. Whenever things go wrong with Schmidt everyone starts pointing at how we've been doing the same thing over and over again and that's clearly not the case. Apart from scoring and conceding tries we are a very good and consistent team, the problem being that scoring and conceding tries win rugby matches, if it were based on keeping possession and territory we'd be the best in the world so at least that's a platform. The easy fix would appear to be to start playing wider and faster in both attack and defence, in defence that should be easy to do with new players in Payne at 15 and Sweetnam on the wing because the centres and halfbacks are doing the business there. Not so easy in attack because Murray is a bloody slow passer of the rugby ball, (possibly the best in the world in every other aspect of 9 play but slow and struggling for form too right now which isn't ideal) Sexton doesn't like to play deep which is needed to create overlaps and therefore we're not breaking the play up like Leinster have been which allows Henshaw and Ringrose to create havoc because everything has to be structured heavily. That's what has to be implemented but the reaction on these shored would make you believe that we've become the worst team in world rugby and are calling for mass change, whereas, apart from the 1st 40 against Scotland, the only thing that has changed from wins over NZ and Aus is composure and clinical finishing in the opposition 22, Murray's form, the loss of a fast backrow like Murphy and JVdF and the line out are the difference. The optimism is due to the changes being obvious and easily implemented and the belief that Schmidt will do it (He's bounced back from every failure he's had with Ireland magnificently). The result was **** but, like the Scotland game, Ireland lost it themselves rather than getting beaten, more frustrating but less worrying long term. If we win next week we've thrown a championship away in Cardiff but things could be worse!

 

[big ginger 8]

Just on one point, I actually thought Keith Earls had a good game..... then I looked on espn scrum and r=found that he got turned over 4 times.

Like a lot of stats being turned over is useless without context and often one that's not a negative against the player himself but rather his support.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Over the last few days I've become convinced that a second distributor outside 10 would make a big difference to our play. Zebo does it a bit but unless you're Shane Williams it's difficult for a winger to it at a continuous level. Therefore we probably need one in the centres or at 15. Unlike others I don't think massive sweeping changes have to be made or even that players are playing at such a level that they demand being dropped but I do think there is something wrong with the makeup of the team at the moment.

Options to come in for this playmaking role would be Payne, Carberry (in before the artist formerly known as cmac95 screams 'HE'S AN OUTHALF'), Olding, Marshall or Zebo (at 15).

As with most players all have their pros and cons.

I am expecting pretty much the same team for next week and totally understand and mostly agree that there shouldn't be any sweeping changes until Japan.

I'd like Carbery to become a bit more of a beefcake and play 12.

9. Fetish 10. Byrne 11. Kink 12. Carbery 13. Ringrose 14. Byrne 15. Henshaw 23. ROL could be Leinster's backline that wins their 5th and/or 6th European championships and translate nicely to Ireland in a few areas.

 

[big ginger 8]

I'd like Carbery to become a bit more of a beefcake and play 12.

9. Fetish 10. Byrne 11. Kink 12. Carbery 13. Ringrose 14. Byrne 15. Henshaw 23. ROL could be Leinster's backline that wins their 5th and/or 6th European championships and translate nicely to Ireland in a few areas.

Getting Carbery to beef up possible costing him his pace and agility so you can put him at 12 and move Henshaw who is well suited there to his worst position of fullback makes absolutely no sense to me. If Henshaw moved to 15 it wouldn't be because of Carbery.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Getting Carbery to beef up possible costing him his pace and agility so you can put him at 12 and move Henshaw who is well suited there to his worst position of fullback makes absolutely no sense to me. If Henshaw moved to 15 it wouldn't be because of Carbery.

He'd need to beef up a wee bit for any position outside of 10. I'd see Henshaw getting ahead of Ringrose at 13 for Ireland, this is all way too far into the future to contemplate realistically but a man needs to get himself off from time to time.

- - - Updated - - -

Getting Carbery to beef up possible costing him his pace and agility so you can put him at 12 and move Henshaw who is well suited there to his worst position of fullback makes absolutely no sense to me. If Henshaw moved to 15 it wouldn't be because of Carbery.

He'd need to beef up a wee bit for any position outside of 10. I'd see Henshaw getting ahead of Ringrose at 13 for Ireland, this is all way too far into the future to contemplate realistically but a man needs to get himself off from time to time.

 

[munstermuffin]

Few interesting stats displayed here in Musgrave Park on Schmidt's term.
He's managed 44games

1-10 80% win rate
11-20 80%
21-30 55%
31-40 60%
41-44 50%.

Now the win rate is not my concern it's more within the terms. The loss of key coaches Smal and Plumtree for example.
Also the gameplan noticably narrowed. We've leaked I think close to double the amount of tries in games 21-44.
Luke Fitzgearld dod a great piece their exposing the risk in our plan and how teams can expose it.

I think it is key whatever about personell changes in team the style has to evolve a bit

 

[corny]

Its more of a reaction to this, this and that are wrong and need change. Whenever things go wrong with Schmidt everyone starts pointing at how we've been doing the same thing over and over again and that's clearly not the case. Apart from scoring and conceding tries we are a very good and consistent team, the problem being that scoring and conceding tries win rugby matches, if it were based on keeping possession and territory we'd be the best in the world so at least that's a platform. The easy fix would appear to be to start playing wider and faster in both attack and defence, in defence that should be easy to do with new players in Payne at 15 and Sweetnam on the wing because the centres and halfbacks are doing the business there. Not so easy in attack because Murray is a bloody slow passer of the rugby ball, (possibly the best in the world in every other aspect of 9 play but slow and struggling for form too right now which isn't ideal) Sexton doesn't like to play deep which is needed to create overlaps and therefore we're not breaking the play up like Leinster have been which allows Henshaw and Ringrose to create havoc because everything has to be structured heavily. That's what has to be implemented but the reaction on these shored would make you believe that we've become the worst team in world rugby and are calling for mass change, whereas, apart from the 1st 40 against Scotland, the only thing that has changed from wins over NZ and Aus is composure and clinical finishing in the opposition 22, Murray's form, the loss of a fast backrow like Murphy and JVdF and the line out are the difference. The optimism is due to the changes being obvious and easily implemented and the belief that Schmidt will do it (He's bounced back from every failure he's had with Ireland magnificently). The result was **** but, like the Scotland game, Ireland lost it themselves rather than getting beaten, more frustrating but less worrying long term. If we win next week we've thrown a championship away in Cardiff but things could be worse!

Two years ago in Cardiff we bludgeoned the Welsh to death but they still scored more points than us. There'd also be NZ in Dublin, Scotland in Murrayfield and countless other games i'm sure as examples. The point is we can all see our outside backs don't carry enough threat because they lack genuine pace and/or power and that loses us games. When the Welsh were running in open field they were eating up ground and territory. If we create an overlap or a half gap its snuffed out immediately because invariably the opposition just run faster. This has been demonstrated to Schmidt time and again. Its not a sour reaction to losing in Cardiff. Its a legitimate question that probably becomes more relevant when we lose...but its still legitimate.

O' Halloran will never get a run and Payne will only play FB in an injury crisis. Henshaw only moves from 12 if Aki (good physical defender) declares for Ireland. Sweetnam, Byrne, ROL will only get picked if they're able to match Earls and Zebo on the defensive part of the game. Thats the kicker for Schmidt. He'll accept the attacking limitations of players but no way is anyone getting picked if they can't hit rucks! Ok a bit facetious there but you get the drift.....The defensive part of the game gets you the jersey. I just don't agree with that. Adam Byrne might give up a try being out of position but he might score you three tries running over the top of someone and offloading to support runners. Schmidt just doesn't see it this way. I wish he did.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Bundee Aki says hello for November tests. Reunite the best Irish club centre partnership in recent years. Add TOH and you can afford to have defensive / high ball orientated wings and still have plenty power, pace and invention. There are plenty viable options to hand for Ireland this year and for 2019.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Two years ago in Cardiff we bludgeoned the Welsh to death but they still scored more points than us. There'd also be NZ in Dublin, Scotland in Murrayfield and countless other games i'm sure as examples. The point is we can all see our outside backs don't carry enough threat because they lack genuine pace and/or power and that loses us games. When the Welsh were running in open field they were eating up ground and territory. If we create an overlap or a half gap its snuffed out immediately because invariably the opposition just run faster. This has been demonstrated to Schmidt time and again. Its not a sour reaction to losing in Cardiff. Its a legitimate question that probably becomes more relevant when we lose...but its still legitimate.

O' Halloran will never get a run and Payne will only play FB in an injury crisis. Henshaw only moves from 12 if Aki (good physical defender) declares for Ireland. Sweetnam, Byrne, ROL will only get picked if they're able to match Earls and Zebo on the defensive part of the game. Thats the kicker for Schmidt. He'll accept the attacking limitations of players but no way is anyone getting picked if they can't hit rucks! Ok a bit facetious there but you get the drift.....The defensive part of the game gets you the jersey. I just don't agree with that. Adam Byrne might give up a try being out of position but he might score you three tries running over the top of someone and offloading to support runners. Schmidt just doesn't see it this way. I wish he did.

I agree with the questions asked over our ability to score points, I just don't think it'll be a worry long term, three examples of losing games in the space of two international periods for the same reason will be looked at. This time last year Schmidt was criticised for not capping new players after the RWC, he quickly fixed that and apart from the back three and maybe a few bolters here and there I'd say that the entirety of the next RWC squad has been capped, definitely the guys who'll be in and around the 23. Schmidt is a smart man, he has said in the media that we aren't a predictable team and for the most part he's right. Once we hit the 22 we don't have a lot, Murray is too slow and Sexton is too flat to go wide against rush defences we need players who can create and take advantage of gaps in midfield or we need Paddy Jackson but he doesn't match up anywhere else on the pitch. I hope we see Byrne and Sweetnam and a new 15 in Japan and New Jersey, if we're still playing the same back three in Autumn I'll start asking the same questions you are but until this six nations I don't think these problems were the glaringly obvious ones. In last year's tournament we simply couldn't get any good territory, that's been fixed, the next challenge is to start using this territory, we can do it but names in the 1st XV need to change to make it consistent.