• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[2021 Six Nations] Wales vs Ireland (07/02/21)

Latest "educated rumour" is that the backrow will be POM, VDF, CJ...

I'm just amazed that no one in the IRFU in 2019 looked at Leinster and Ireland and subsequently thought back to 2015 and thought "wait, we have the two main men from the English coaching team of 2015 in our ranks, one initially did well under our notoriously autocratic coach and then collapsed, he also wants to bring his mate from that coaching team in, and the other is the primary reason for Leinster's recovery from mediocrity to a top side in Europe... Maybe we should take a look at Lancaster and let Andy go."
 
Latest "educated rumour" is that the backrow will be POM, VDF, CJ...

I'm just amazed that no one in the IRFU in 2019 looked at Leinster and Ireland and subsequently thought back to 2015 and thought "wait, we have the two main men from the English coaching team of 2015 in our ranks, one initially did well under our notoriously autocratic coach and then collapsed, he also wants to bring his mate from that coaching team in, and the other is the primary reason for Leinster's recovery from mediocrity to a top side in Europe... Maybe we should take a look at Lancaster and let Andy go."

Farrell was announced as Schmidt's successor in November 2018 after Farrell having a massively successful coaching stint over the previous 3 years with Ireland and the Lions. If you say that's too early to make that decision I'd agree with you. Clear succession planning is important and avoiding the media circus of who the next coach will be is useful but doing it a full year before your HC finishes up is probably a bit much. Of course Lancaster had at this point also successfully resurrected his reputation being a big part in Leinster's 2018 double.

I'd be doubtful that they did talk to Lancaster but who's to say they didn't or that he would have taken them up on it.

Lancaster has been connected with a number of big roles since his resurgence with Leinster and he's still at Leinster. By all accounts he really likes the position he's in and is being very choice about taking any other jobs. All the things he seems to like about his job with Leinster such as not being the main focus of the press and getting to develop the young lads I think international coaching is the last thing he wants now and certainly back then when the scars were still relatively fresh from 2015.


I don't want to sound like I'm defending Farrell completely, I'm trying to keep an open mind until the end of the 6N as I think is fair for any first year head coach let alone one dealing with completely unprecedented circumstances. He's done a few things I like and plenty I don't like. Case in point, Thornley's rumoured team is fairly as expected but overall meh. You just seem to already be equating him to he who must not be named.

IRELAND (possible) v WALES: Hugo Keenan, Keith Earls, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton (capt), Conor Murray; Cian Healy, Rob Herring, Andrew Porter, Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan, Peter O'Mahony, Josh van der Flier, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rónan Kelleher, Dave Kilcoyne, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, Will Connors, Jamison Gibson-Park, Billy Burns, Jordan Larmour.

Think that team is able to beat the Wales side their fans are predicting but the pack is massively lacking in attacking threat overall. There's probably more attacking threat on the bench than the starting team which given the likes of Eddie Jones' recent comments, might be on purpose. It's interesting that VDF started both games last year against Wales and seems to be in line for this one even though Connors seemed to be preferred against France and England
 
You have to give Farrell a bit of leeway, coming in after a successful and a highly respected coach who wanted things done a very certain way. He also wasn't helped by two players who were top class in previous years Sexton and Murray having dips in form. Farrell inherited a few positions in Hooker and 10 were there was a lack of depth which he had to address.
 
IRELAND (possible) v WALES: Hugo Keenan, Keith Earls, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton (capt), Conor Murray; Cian Healy, Rob Herring, Andrew Porter, Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan, Peter O'Mahony, Josh van der Flier, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rónan Kelleher, Dave Kilcoyne, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, Will Connors, Jamison Gibson-Park, Billy Burns, Jordan Larmour.

Think that team is able to beat the Wales side their fans are predicting but the pack is massively lacking in attacking threat overall. There's probably more attacking threat on the bench than the starting team which given the likes of Eddie Jones' recent comments, might be on purpose. It's interesting that VDF started both games last year against Wales and seems to be in line for this one even though Connors seemed to be preferred against France and England
I want you to sit down and explain to me why Keith Earls' name is hyperlinked to the Irish times list of articles about him.....

Yeah that's not quite the team I want. I think O'Mahony and Van Der Flier is unbalanced and if you add in Beirne who is there on merit it makes us pretty lightweight in terms of carriers. I don't think Herring offers much of anything in particular to us. Would think our bench Front row is on paper way more impressive than what is starting, with the caveat that Porter is too good to bench right now and Furlong will have to wait. Backs not massively surprising bar Lowe who is maybe lucky to stroll back in, but I'm happy to have him back there because he will make breaks. Positive is our bench forwards are full of impact, bar the inclusion of Connors over Ruddock which I've already questioned. Do not love our bench options at half back, JGP over Casey is depressing (no slight on JGP, but Casey is wasted in Ireland camp if this is our fate) but Larmour should be great from the bench too if the game opens up a bit. Burns over Byrne probably the fair call even if I wish we had better.
 
Farrell was announced as Schmidt's successor in November 2018 after Farrell having a massively successful coaching stint over the previous 3 years with Ireland and the Lions. If you say that's too early to make that decision I'd agree with you. Clear succession planning is important and avoiding the media circus of who the next coach will be is useful but doing it a full year before your HC finishes up is probably a bit much. Of course Lancaster had at this point also successfully resurrected his reputation being a big part in Leinster's 2018 double.

I'd be doubtful that they did talk to Lancaster but who's to say they didn't or that he would have taken them up on it.

Lancaster has been connected with a number of big roles since his resurgence with Leinster and he's still at Leinster. By all accounts he really likes the position he's in and is being very choice about taking any other jobs. All the things he seems to like about his job with Leinster such as not being the main focus of the press and getting to develop the young lads I think international coaching is the last thing he wants now and certainly back then when the scars were still relatively fresh from 2015.


I don't want to sound like I'm defending Farrell completely, I'm trying to keep an open mind until the end of the 6N as I think is fair for any first year head coach let alone one dealing with completely unprecedented circumstances. He's done a few things I like and plenty I don't like. Case in point, Thornley's rumoured team is fairly as expected but overall meh. You just seem to already be equating him to he who must not be named.

IRELAND (possible) v WALES: Hugo Keenan, Keith Earls, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton (capt), Conor Murray; Cian Healy, Rob Herring, Andrew Porter, Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan, Peter O'Mahony, Josh van der Flier, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rónan Kelleher, Dave Kilcoyne, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, Will Connors, Jamison Gibson-Park, Billy Burns, Jordan Larmour.

Think that team is able to beat the Wales side their fans are predicting but the pack is massively lacking in attacking threat overall. There's probably more attacking threat on the bench than the starting team which given the likes of Eddie Jones' recent comments, might be on purpose. It's interesting that VDF started both games last year against Wales and seems to be in line for this one even though Connors seemed to be preferred against France and England
These teams always have one of the subs wrong so I'm going to desperately hope it's JGP/Casey. If Ruddock is in the squad ahead of others to be 6th choice I'll be unimpressed.
 
15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 6 caps
14. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 88 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 30 caps
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 47 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) 2 caps
10. Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary's College) 95 caps Captain
9. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 87 caps
1. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 104 caps
2. Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 16 caps
3. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 32 caps
4. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 17 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 32 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 73 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
8. CJ Stander (Munster/Shannon) 46 caps

Replacements

16. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 6 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians) 39 caps
18. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 44 caps
19. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 58 caps
20. Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) 5 caps
21. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 5 caps
22. Billy Burns (Ulster) 3 caps
23. Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Mary's College) 24 caps

sigh
 
I don't want to sound like I'm defending Farrell completely, I'm trying to keep an open mind until the end of the 6N as I think is fair for any first year head coach let alone one dealing with completely unprecedented circumstances. He's done a few things I like and plenty I don't like. Case in point, Thornley's rumoured team is fairly as expected but overall meh. You just seem to already be equating him to he who must not be named.
If this was his first year in the set up Of give him more leeway, fact is he's been there since 2019 when a lot of issues that are still yet to be addressed came to head. He's doubling and tripling down on selections proven not to be able to do it against big teams and we haven't looked much more than flat track bullies. 9 matches is plenty time to show if you have it or not in international rugby and Farrell's record looks more similar to Martin Johnson's over that period than anyone of use and he absolutely hasn't picked a squad near capable of winning this 6n in my opinion when it should be the target. 4 wins should be the minimum in the next couple months, if he gets there I'll give him his dues but if not he should be out the door.

You have to give Farrell a bit of leeway, coming in after a successful and a highly respected coach who wanted things done a very certain way. He also wasn't helped by two players who were top class in previous years Sexton and Murray having dips in form. Farrell inherited a few positions in Hooker and 10 were there was a lack of depth which he had to address.

His approach to 1, 2 and 10 has been absolutely lackluster though, if the rumoured team in the post above is correct you can add 9 to that list while he's slowly creating trouble for himself in the backrow. Cutting him slack is not judging everything by results immediately, that's fair, if you go a level deeper you quickly see a lot of problems with his coaching.

Theres also Keith Earls, he's 33 and not even the form winger over 30 in the country, not a good selection for a side desperately needing a transition.

15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 6 caps
14. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 88 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 30 caps
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 47 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) 2 caps
10. Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary's College) 95 caps Captain
9. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 87 caps
1. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 104 caps
2. Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 16 caps
3. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 32 caps
4. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 17 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 32 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 73 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
8. CJ Stander (Munster/Shannon) 46 caps

Replacements

16. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 6 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians) 39 caps
18. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 44 caps
19. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 58 caps
20. Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) 5 caps
21. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 5 caps
22. Billy Burns (Ulster) 3 caps
23. Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Mary's College) 24 caps

sigh
Farrell out
 
Despite a few meh selections I still think Ireland will be favourites for the game. I can't see Wales' already struggling lineout do well against that selection.
 
Leigh Halfpenny; Louis Rees-Zammit, George North, Johnny Williams, Hallam Amos; Dan Biggar, Tomos Williams; Wyn Jones, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis, Adam Beard, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Dan Lydiate, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Elliot Dee, Rhodri Jones, Leon Brown, Will Rowlands, Josh Navidi, Gareth Davies, Callum Sheedy, Nick Tompkins.

That's not exactly an exciting pack, I understand Beard coming in to help the set piece but paired with Lydiate at 6, there's not many ball carriers. Seems a bit of strange choice since Wales really struggled to gain ground with up front carries.
Biggar is the safer option at 10 but that 10,12,13 combo might be struggling to unlock the Irish defence, I'm also a bit worried about North in defence. Bench is a mixed bag, lots of impact off the bench from 19 onwards but 16,17,18 is a step down when it comes onto the field.
 
Both sides desperate for a win. Lydiate, Tipuric, Faletau backrow, just missing Warburton. I know Pivac needs a win, but that is not a long term solution there.
 
Both sides desperate for a win. Lydiate, Tipuric, Faletau backrow, just missing Warburton. I know Pivac needs a win, but that is not a long term solution there.
Imagine if England pop up with Robbo and Hask on the flanks v Wales, dream scenario haha
 
Dan Lydaite is still playing? Jesus. Can't believe he's starting for Wales years after Warburton retired.

I like Ringrose's chances against North too.
 
Dan Lydaite is still playing? Jesus. Can't believe he's starting for Wales years after Warburton retired.

I like Ringrose's chances against North too.

He's been playing well to be fair but I'm not sure how it has come to him starting especially since there is other options for 6. Hopefully Ireland just want to do single one up runners into him all day then it will be an inspired selection.
I'm expecting a lot of line breaks of set piece for Ireland. As long as they just don't really directly straight at the centre combo Ireland should get some decent meterage in the outside channels.
 
He's been playing well to be fair but I'm not sure how it has come to him starting especially since there is other options for 6. Hopefully Ireland just want to do single one up runners into him all day then it will be an inspired selection.
I'm expecting a lot of line breaks of set piece for Ireland. As long as they just don't really directly straight at the centre combo Ireland should get some decent meterage in the outside channels.
That unfortunately is probably close to the truth...
 
If this was his first year in the set up Of give him more leeway, fact is he's been there since 2019 when a lot of issues that are still yet to be addressed came to head. He's doubling and tripling down on selections proven not to be able to do it against big teams and we haven't looked much more than flat track bullies. 9 matches is plenty time to show if you have it or not in international rugby and Farrell's record looks more similar to Martin Johnson's over that period than anyone of use and he absolutely hasn't picked a squad near capable of winning this 6n in my opinion when it should be the target. 4 wins should be the minimum in the next couple months, if he gets there I'll give him his dues but if not he should be out the door.



His approach to 1, 2 and 10 has been absolutely lackluster though, if the rumoured team in the post above is correct you can add 9 to that list while he's slowly creating trouble for himself in the backrow. Cutting him slack is not judging everything by results immediately, that's fair, if you go a level deeper you quickly see a lot of problems with his coaching.

Theres also Keith Earls, he's 33 and not even the form winger over 30 in the country, not a good selection for a side desperately needing a transition.


Farrell out
Farrell isn't first coach to be guilty but 100% agree. There no forward planning. Like a lot say of Ruddock should be in backrow. He shouldn't as he 30 but for Sunday maybe the "horses for courses" view needs to be looked at. POM deserves to be in on form with Doris and Stander it was working. 1 injury means a major imbalance.

Agree Earls has struggled for us this season. But Larmour was terribly exposed in Thomond Park, Conway has no game time. Options here were limited unless bravery was selected and Shane Daly or someone thrown in although not sure that would work.

Tadgh Beirne is in 100% justified. Props. If Healy or Porter get injured early it could be issue as 2 lads behind while at this level are only returning.
 

Latest posts

Top