June International Tests: Argentina vs. England (2nd Test) (17/06/2017)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Estadio Brigadier Estanislao Lopez
Time: 21:15 CAT (SA, GMT+2)​

 

[MarkyH]

Well, after the 1st test I'm quite excited for the 2nd. Would make changes so a few of the other lads get a run out in a proper test match. Robshaw will come back in, but I'd love to see Underhill and the other Curry get a game which would be unfortunate for T Curry and Wilson who both played really well at the weekend but we've got to think longer term.

I'd like to see the following

1. Genge
2. Hartley
3. Williams
4. Launch
5. Ewels
6. Robshaw
7. B Curry (give the other Curry a go)
8. Hughes

9. Care
10. Ford
11. Earle
12. Francis
13. Slade
14. Solomona
15. Brown

Singleton, Mullan, Collier, Isiekwe, Underhill, Jack Maunder, Loz, Cokanasiga

 

[Dark Horse]

Argentina will dazzle for 70 mins, looking almost as good as the All Blacks but never converting their clear dominance to points in the way they should, mainly due to an abnormal amount of handling errors at key moments and inexplicable defensive lapses. Sanchez will be the best player on the field by far but will end up on the losing side as he usually does and Hernandez will do something absolutely crazy. A less experienced England will stay in touch on the scoreboard and be buoyed by repeated ruck infringements from Argentina forwards and Ford won't miss a kick all day. If you watch the Jaguares regularly, you needn't watch Saturday's test because you've seen it 20 times already. I feel sorry for Argentina's fans, genuinely among the world's most passionate.

 

[Goodey]

Ought to make some changes in the tight five. Don't think Jones will be happy with what he saw at the scrum/lineout and with the good all-round performances it's probably the combinations that are an issue. Or Dylan Hartley. Not sure.

Would stick with Lozowski, think he's got heaps of potential.

 

[BPM]

I'd go for:

1. Genge
2. Hartley (c)
3. Williams
4. Launchbury
5. Ewels
6. Wilson
7. Underhill
8. Hughes
9. Care
10. Ford
11. Earle
12. Francis
13. Slade
14. Solomona
15. Lozowski

16. Singleton 17. Mullan 18. Collier 19. Isiekwe 20. B. Curry 21. Maunder 22. Mallinder 23. Cokanasiga

Wilson was excellent on Saturday and playing Robshaw isn't going to tell us anything we don't already know. If Wilson can back up his performance last week, we'll have found a viable deputy for Robshaw which hopefully means the end of the road for Wood.

Tom Curry is only dropped to give Underhill and Ben Curry a shot. He's already done enough against the Barbarians and Argentina to warrant a place in Eddie's plans, so let's see whether the other two can follow suit.

Francis made a big impact when he came on and everything he did, he did well. That merits a start IMO and also gives the opportunity to be bold and try Lozowski at fullback. I don't see Eddie doing it, but why not give it a try?

With Earle, Mallinder and Cokanasiga, we may as well give them a go too. A 2-0 win would be great, but while we have the opportunity to experiment, we should take it.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ought to make some changes in the tight five. Don't think Jones will be happy with what he saw at the scrum/lineout and with the good all-round performances it's probably the combinations that are an issue. Or Dylan Hartley. Not sure.

Would stick with Lozowski, think he's got heaps of potential.

Keep the tight 5 as it is. Genge and Williams both contributed well in the loose, any problems in the tight are more down to inexperience than anything else. The Pumas are as tough as it gets up front and they'll learn far more in an hour against them than from 3 weeks in camp.

Both flankers went well last week, but want to see Underhill given a shot. Hughes was also very good, starting to look more at home on the international stage.....he's older than Billy, but probably as good after an equivalent number of caps.

Behind the scrum, no idea! But I'd restrict any changes to 2 or 3 to give us the best chance of winning again. Experimentation's great, but there's nothing quite like winning.

 

[Scotty]

Genge
Hartley
Williams
isekwe
Launchbury
Armand
Underhill
Hughes
Maunder
Ford
Earle
Francais
Slade
Solomona
Brown

Singleton
Mullan
Collier
Ewels
Ben curry
Care
Loz
Yarde ( only to cover solomona and earle, would ratjer sam james but need to cover in experience)

 

[Maverick1987]

Announcement at 8pm GMT I expect ?

 

[barkinghooker]

 

[Goodey]

I expected a heavily changed backline, and I expected a change in the front row. For a squad with such an experimental vibe, they've not actually experimented much.

Wilson over Curry at this stage seems also like a change of plan since the end of the season.

Sam James and Nathan Earl can feel hard done to, probably won't get another look in for some time.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm very annoyed with that team if i'm being honest.


Yarde over Earle still......


I still think England would of been better having the two Curry brothers with the U20's.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Very underwhelmed, tbh.
Not too gutted about missing it through work, now.

 

[Juggler]

Don't see it like that. Eddie giving Argentina the respect they have earned. He wants to win 2-0.

 

[Reiser99]

I think the AI's will give us a better idea of what Jones is thinking. He's had a closer look at some players and given some an opportunity. However it's only when the squad is back to full strength that we will see who has really impressed him. Underhill is being given his chance to impress. Earle is unlucky, but I don't think he would start once Watson and Nowell come back. Realistically, apart from maybe the Curry brothers, nobody missing out really has a shot unless they perform a miracle.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Also Jones still has time between now and the world cup. If that's his ultimate goal then he might decide he wants to win this 2-0, get England back into the habit of winning and then introduce other players next year when there is less disruption and when the older players will begin to be phased out anyway. Only thing I'm not so happy about is taking players out of the U20 squad and not using them. I can understand getting them into the camp etc but still... Also is there no link in training between the seniors and U20 to ensure continuity in the style of play?

 

[BPM]

Also Jones still has time between now and the world cup. If that's his ultimate goal then he might decide he wants to win this 2-0, get England back into the habit of winning and then introduce other players next year when there is less disruption and when the older players will begin to be phased out anyway. Only thing I'm not so happy about is taking players out of the U20 squad and not using them. I can understand getting them into the camp etc but still... Also is there no link in training between the seniors and U20 to ensure continuity in the style of play?

I agree with this to a point, but the only ones taken from the U20s that haven't played are Cokanasiga and Ben Curry.

Ben was due to be on the bench ahead of Tom for the Barbarians game but pulled out with a back spasm. It's possible, he's still struggling with an injury. If not, he's just unlucky that Underhill's also on tour and hopefully, he's still had the chance to impress in training.

I think there's a chance Cokanasiga is not considered ready. Admittedly, I've only seen a few of his LI games but watching him in the U20 6N, his positioning in defence and ability under a high ball were at best questionable.

Re. your comment on continuity in the style of play, I wonder if Brophy-Clews playing at 12 is an attempt to develop a similar dual playmaker set-up as we have with Ford and Farrell?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Only really upset to have not seen Earle given a go.

 

[Reiser99]

Well here's a quote from Eddie: "It will also be exciting to see Sam make his debut too having been unfortunate not to play last week because of injury."

It does seem that Sam is EJ's preferred choice. I guess Tom and Ben are still young, though if Ben was fully fit after Baabaa's, then he may have benefited from UN20's instead of just squad training. It is the biggest issue in the sqaud, because Wood, Robshaw and Haskell are all 30+ and after that most players tried have been found wanting it seems. I think it will be fascinating to see who EJ goes with in the Autumn, because if he's thinking about the future in 2 years, you have to ask yourself if some players like Haskell, Wood and Robshaw are going to get better or even stay at the same level. Haskell for me definitely could slip further down, he hasn't had a great year.

 

[BPM]

Eddie's been itching to have a look at Underhill for ages. If he has a good game and settles in well at Bath, then he will be a real contender to start at 7 for the AIs.

Haskell is past his peak and Wood's gone downhill ever since he picked up that foot injury in 2012. I'm hoping that Underhill, the Currys and Wilson start making up the core of our back row moving forward. If they're good enough now, they could be very, very good with another two years and 20 caps under their belts.

 

[Goodey]

Don't see it like that. Eddie giving Argentina the respect they have earned. He wants to win 2-0.

I'd have liked this approach overall. But I'm surprised because that's not really the squad he picked.