June International Test: Australia vs. England [3rd Test] (25/06/2016)

[Every Time Ref]

Tough one, my instinct says no. I feel dead rubbers tend to go to the losers. But then, my head has said we'd lose twice and been wrong twice, maybe my heart knows what's what here.

Also, maybe my perception about dead rubbers is skewed by growing up watching 90s Ashes series.

 

[Peat]

Yeah true but they got and took opportunities from the ball they had. Maybe if Aus hadn't given away penalties under pressure England would've put more phases together. If your spells of possession are ending repeatedly with kickable penalties then you're doing something right.

I agree that there's a lot to work on, just taking issue with the idea that England are just crap at attack, period.

Do you credit the England team for putting on the pressure, or the Australian team for being stupid and having no feeling for the ref? Its always a bit of both but I saw more of the latter than the former.

Still, yeah, we're definitely not crap at attack.


As for who wins? Think a huge amount depends on just how good or not Toomua will be after being pitched straight back in. If he gives them a bit more brain, things could go ugly. If he's not ready, we could make things ugly. Reality probably lies in another tight game... and I think we win again tbh.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Do you credit the England team for putting on the pressure, or the Australian team for being stupid and having no feeling for the ref? Its always a bit of both but I saw more of the latter than the former.

I'd say more 50-50 but whatever. Basically in agreement.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I can't see Aussie being as predictable and one dimensional as they have been in the first two tests but you never know.
If Aussie don't get it wide early they will be in trouble again as the Poms will surely drag them into an arm wrestle.
Going one out and running at the line is a simple tactic that is very rarely effective in international rugby.
So far the Poms have coped with it manfully and admirably.
Has Cheika lost his mind?
With all that pace power and guile out wide Aussie are showing themselves to be their own worst enemies by ploughing back into the tight all to often and not stretching the Poms wider on the pitch phase after phase before looking to make the strike.

I think the Poms will be even better in the tight in the last test because they know they dominate that area.
Aussie have every hope but it's only in the wide channels where they can stretch the Poms, tire them out by making them charge around the pitch chasing ghosts. Aussie have to take penalty options when they are kickable. It's a must win situation for Aussie.
Yeah sure the horse has bolted as far as the series is concerned but where is your pride Cheika?

 

[pombrown]

[BLINK][/BLINK]

Should a situation arise that someone needs to play out of position into the wing, I reckon it'll be Clifford.

Itoje on the wing for me!

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

[BLINK][/BLINK]

Itoje on the wing for me!

Still a better option than Brown shifting to wing...

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Still a better option than Brown shifting to wing...

Let's be honest, Itoje would probably be a better option at FB than Brown.

 

[Zed]

I can't see Aussie being as predictable and one dimensional as they have been in the first two tests but you never know.
If Aussie don't get it wide early they will be in trouble again as the Poms will surely drag them into an arm wrestle.
Going one out and running at the line is a simple tactic that is very rarely effective in international rugby.
So far the Poms have coped with it manfully and admirably.
Has Cheika lost his mind?
With all that pace power and guile out wide Aussie are showing themselves to be their own worst enemies by ploughing back into the tight all to often and not stretching the Poms wider on the pitch phase after phase before looking to make the strike.

I think the Poms will be even better in the tight in the last test because they know they dominate that area.
Aussie have every hope but it's only in the wide channels where they can stretch the Poms, tire them out by making them charge around the pitch chasing ghosts. Aussie have to take penalty options when they are kickable. It's a must win situation for Aussie.
Yeah sure the horse has bolted as far as the series is concerned but where is your pride Cheika?

I'm not even sure what Cheika's game plan is going to be. I thought we played well in the 1st test and were great in attack, we just lacked the nous to control the game and were slinging the ball wide at every opportunity, slowly, slowly gently monkey.. 2nd test similar game plan, but England sorted their defence out and their blitz defence was highly effective. With some of the runners we have, I just don't know how we couldn't score, hammering away on their try line for 20+ phases, quite depressing really. I'm predicting a 3 - 0 whitewash.

 

[Zed]

Yeah true but they got and took opportunities from the ball they had. Maybe if Aus hadn't given away penalties under pressure England would've put more phases together. If your spells of possession are ending repeatedly with kickable penalties then you're doing something right.

I agree that there's a lot to work on, just taking issue with the idea that England are just crap at attack, period.

I wouldn't say they were crap in attack, it's more of a case that they haven't really needed to play an expansive game yet. However I haven't really seen any players (especially in the backs) that look that dangerous in attack. I was expecting Yarde to be a bit better and I've heard some good things about Watson, so would be good to get him involved in the game a bit more. But this Englands team's strength isn't in the outside backs, so why play it out there? I think the next 2 - 3 years England will become stronger and I don't think the forward pack will change much, but I reckon the backline in 2018 will be very different to what it is now. I think Ford and Farrell have done pretty well at 10 and 12, but neither have pace or the ability to beat players one - on one, the centres Burrell, JJ haven't shown much in attack, I don't think Brown will appear in an England shirt again, he simply lacks the pace and elusiveness needed at this level, I think Watson and Tuilagi are the only guys that will be in the backline come 2018.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I wouldn't say they were crap in attack, it's more of a case that they haven't really needed to play an expansive game yet. However I haven't really seen any players (especially in the backs) that look that dangerous in attack. I was expecting Yarde to be a bit better and I've heard some good things about Watson, so would be good to get him involved in the game a bit more. But this Englands team's strength isn't in the outside backs, so why play it out there? I think the next 2 - 3 years England will become stronger and I don't think the forward pack will change much, but I reckon the backline in 2018 will be very different to what it is now. I think Ford and Farrell have done pretty well at 10 and 12, but neither have pace or the ability to beat players one - on one, the centres Burrell, JJ haven't shown much in attack, I don't think Brown will appear in an England shirt again, he simply lacks the pace and elusiveness needed at this level, I think Watson and Tuilagi are the only guys that will be in the backline come 2018.

You don't think Ford or Farrell will be in the back line in 2018? Are you planning on not playing a fly half? At 10 you don't need the ability to beat players 1 on 1, you need to be able to put other players through holes and manage the game. Ford is superb at the hole part and Faz is a great game manager, which is why they work so well together. And JJ's going no where. His 13 channel defence is excellent. That 13 shirt is his until 2019, unless he is injured and Daly does a great job, booting out JJ, which is unlikely. I also doubt this is the last time Brown will be in an England shirt, even if it should be. I reckon we're stuck with him until 2017. I also think Nowell will still be around. He's actually younger than Yarde or Wade, so has more room for improvement, and is already the better player. He won't set the world alight, but his kick chase and work rate is almost certainly the best of any winger in the world. My back line for 2018 is:

9. Robson
10. Ford
11. Nowell
12. Faz
13. JJ
14. Watson
15. Haley

21. Youngs
22. Slade
23. Daly

 

[Zed]

You don't think Ford or Farrell will be in the back line in 2018? Are you planning on not playing a fly half? At 10 you don't need the ability to beat players 1 on 1, you need to be able to put other players through holes and manage the game. Ford is superb at the hole part and Faz is a great game manager, which is why they work so well together. And JJ's going no where. His 13 channel defence is excellent. That 13 shirt is his until 2019, unless he is injured and Daly does a great job, booting out JJ, which is unlikely. I also doubt this is the last time Brown will be in an England shirt, even if it should be. I reckon we're stuck with him until 2017. I also think Nowell will still be around. He's actually younger than Yarde or Wade, so has more room for improvement, and is already the better player. He won't set the world alight, but his kick chase and work rate is almost certainly the best of any winger in the world. My back line for 2018 is:

9. Robson
10. Ford
11. Nowell
12. Faz
13. JJ
14. Watson
15. Haley

21. Youngs
22. Slade
23. Daly

Actually I've seen JJ have a few good games, so yeah I reckon if him and MT are in the centres, that would be a good combination. You can get away with having a 10 that's not a great runner of the ball, but it just adds an extra dimension to the team when you have someone that is capable of making half breaks from fly half. If Cipriani was a bit more consistent (on & off the field) he'd be ideal. His try against Natal (for the Rebels) was one of the best fly half tries I can think off and neither Farrell nor Ford could have scored that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xin_3fmtM5w

Ford and Farrell vs Australia has worked, but they are not the answer. A 10 that can't make line breaks is not the end of the world, a 10 and a 12 that can't make line breaks will become a problem at some point. It just becomes so easy for a defence to read. That's what's so good about having Tuilagi in your side, the defence will be busting their balls marking him, so he can be used as a perfect decoy, you run a dummy switch off him, he'll attract multiple defenders. Players like Farrell and Ford don't threaten as much so defenders can hang off them and quickly drift onto 13, 15.

Who's Haley (15) and Robson(9)? Any good?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

At this point I don't feel comfortable putting Tuilagi in any predicted sides, he's never fit. I'd like to see Mallinder take the 12 shirt, but it's questionable whether he'll be ready by then (he's only 20).

Robson was the 9 for the Saxons and plays for Wasps. He's excellent, the in form 9 and only 24 years old.

Haley was the Saxons 15, plays for Sale Sharks. Also young and also excellent. Both have real England careers ahead of them.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You don't think Ford or Farrell will be in the back line in 2018? Are you planning on not playing a fly half? At 10 you don't need the ability to beat players 1 on 1, you need to be able to put other players through holes and manage the game. Ford is superb at the hole part and Faz is a great game manager, which is why they work so well together. And JJ's going no where. His 13 channel defence is excellent. That 13 shirt is his until 2019, unless he is injured and Daly does a great job, booting out JJ, which is unlikely. I also doubt this is the last time Brown will be in an England shirt, even if it should be. I reckon we're stuck with him until 2017. I also think Nowell will still be around. He's actually younger than Yarde or Wade, so has more room for improvement, and is already the better player. He won't set the world alight, but his kick chase and work rate is almost certainly the best of any winger in the world. My back line for 2018 is:

9. Robson
10. Ford
11. Nowell
12. Faz
13. JJ
14. Watson
15. Haley

21. Youngs
22. Slade
23. Daly

If you're looking a couple of years ahead then you should be thinking about Mallinder at 12 - looks like he could be a round peg for a round hole. The other thing I want to see is the emergence of a power winger so Watson can go to 15. Something like:

Robson
Faz
May
Mallinder
Manu
Lewington
Watson

Power pace and a couple of playmakers. I'd take that!

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

That has to be the worst rendition of God save the queen I'be ever heard. Bennett sounded like he was singing through his nose.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

"The lands beyond our traditional boundaries".
Traditionally we had no boundaries.

 

[Which Tyler]

That has to be the worst rendition of God save the queen I'be ever heard. Bennett sounded like he was singing through his nose.

It's part of the psychological warfare.

 

[ncurd]

Australia's our's right?

I want our countries back!

 

[Every Time Ref]

Rushed straight up at Skelton there. Presume that's a plan

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Was Foley legal there?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If England can cut out these errors they'll score tries.