England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[mkersyshull]

Dependent on how he settles Francis would be my wildcard
9 Youngs
10 Farrell
11 Watson
12 Francis
13 Daley
14 Nowell
15 Brown (would prefer Watson but not sure which winger to have)

 

[Which Tyler]

@TobyBeastTeague I don't see how you can talk about 11 different options in the back 3 and not even mention Jonny May.

Currently, I'd have Watson, May nailed on, with Nowell and Daly fighting for the 11 and 23 shirts.
Woodward going well for Glos could easily come into contention there, with Nowell being the most vulnerable of the 4 above

 

[Nudger]

I'm a big fan of Robshaw but I would drop him. With our abundance of second rows, shifting Itoje to 6 just makes sense.
4. Lawes/Launchbury
5. Kruis/Lawes
6. Itoje
Has just as much work rate as Itoje/2nd Row/Robshaw as well as having stronger ball carrying and is such a vast improvement in the lineout. Robshaw's been a great servant to England and he's still a wonderful player, but IMO his time has come to move on.

If we can find wing forwards better than robshaw and Haskell I will start to believe we can beat the all blacks

 

[Nudger]

I'm a big fan of Robshaw but I would drop him. With our abundance of second rows, shifting Itoje to 6 just makes sense.
4. Lawes/Launchbury
5. Kruis/Lawes
6. Itoje
Has just as much work rate as Itoje/2nd Row/Robshaw as well as having stronger ball carrying and is such a vast improvement in the lineout. Robshaw's been a great servant to England and he's still a wonderful player, but IMO his time has come to move on.

If we can find wing forwards better than robshaw and Haskell I will start to believe we can beat the all blacks

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

@TobyBeastTeague I don't see how you can talk about 11 different options in the back 3 and not even mention Jonny May.

Currently, I'd have Watson, May nailed on, with Nowell and Daly fighting for the 11 and 23 shirts.
Woodward going well for Glos could easily come into contention there, with Nowell being the most vulnerable of the 4 above

I know, I realised earlier today that I'd somehow completely forgotten May. I knew when I was writing it up that I'd forgotten someone but was having a total brain fart. I'd like to see May/Watson/Nowell given a go.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Billy V replaced by Clifford.

 

[Nudger]

Billy V replaced by Clifford.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Very interesting display from Slade yesterday. A different type of 13, but could give all kinds of options. Let's see him repeat it a few times before we get too excited though.

Shame for Billy. Hope this isn't the start of a slippery slope for him.

 

[MarkyH]

I'm a fan of Clifford, got a more all-round game than Billy but obv nowhere near as powerful or explosive. Would say he's slightly better at the breakdown and obviously has a fair bit of pace. Would've loved to have seen Simmonds get called up as well.

Slade did look good, a different 13 but he's no slouch with ball in hand, good in defence and obv has great vision. He's big and strong enough not to be targeted, but doesn't have that elusiveness of a JJ or Daly. I think we need to put the idea Slade is a 12 to bed now, or a 10 and let him be a 13 for Chiefs and England. Ideal for that 23 shirt too, poor chap

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye, I'd have preferred Simmonds.

Clifford is good, don't get me wrong, but with Hughes as our clear 2nd choice (and starter for the AIs) I'd rather get SS in camp and learning/getting exposure to the EPS systems and coaches.

I'd rather Clifford be looked at as a replacement for Robshaw down the line. Don't really rate him at 8, but think he could be a top draw flanker, and his lineout work would be handy with a big lump like Binny not jumping from 8

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Aye, I'd have preferred Simmonds.

Clifford is good, don't get me wrong, but with Hughes as our clear 2nd choice (and starter for the AIs) I'd rather get SS in camp and learning/getting exposure to the EPS systems and coaches.

I'd rather Clifford be looked at as a replacement for Robshaw down the line. Don't really rate him at 8, but think he could be a top draw flanker, and his lineout work would be handy with a big lump like Binny not jumping from 8

I prefer him as an 8 than as a flanker. Doesn't seem like he gets through enough grit work for a flanker whereas at 8 he can fill his role of carry hard and fast.

 

[curtbob7]

Back 3 of Watson, Daly and May for me. Nowell on the bench.

But lets face it, he wont drop Brown.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I prefer him as an 8 than as a flanker. Doesn't seem like he gets through enough grit work for a flanker whereas at 8 he can fill his role of carry hard and fast.

Lean more towards this side of the argument although I prefer the 8 to be the totemic rallying point and I'm not sure he's that. Then again I would also prefer a Kieran Read to a Binny. I'm not easily pleased.

Wish Binny had gone with the Lions so we could have seen how he'd have stacked up against the ABs. He's a massive player for us, but there's still an element of knowing what's coming.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

heres a stat i did not expect to see Ford is now Tigers' second top tackler with 43.

 

[Which Tyler]

You probably should have expected it. He's always targeted in defence, never run away from the duty, and always had a decent tackle completion rate. Having known this for 4 years I'm surprised at your surprise.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You probably should have expected it. He's always targeted in defence, never run away from the duty, and always had a decent tackle completion rate. Having known this for 4 years I'm surprised at your surprise.

I'm more surprised that only one player tackles more than him TBH.
Prob an indication of Tigers forwards currently.

I know ford is a guy to shy away. Although he went through that one season of trying to tackle big ass 8's (Cough hughes cough) around the chest which didn't work.
The guy is a Tiger academy product we don't tend to let players hide away.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

No-one's ever accused Ford of shirking like Cips. The stats don't show how effective the tackles were though, whether they were completed two yards over the gain line, if there was an offload etc.

Be interested to see how Smith stacks up in comparison over time. His status as the second coming will probably only last until the first time a big forward tramples all over him.

 

[ncurd]

....Bath fans said it for years hes not a turnstile never really has been. Most effective tackler on the pitch? Nope but rarely causes major problems for his team.

 

[Hound]

His tackle numbers don't surprise me, if I had a choice between running at George Ford or running at Matt Toomua I'd be making George Ford's tackle numbers look good as well.

I'm more surprised that the Tigers haven't been using Toomua as a more aggressive option in defense than I am that Ford has a lot of tackles.

 

[Hound]

Bear in mind Irish were far and away the best attacking side in the country when he won his caps.

Honestly, he just isn't that great. He was a fine player at his peak, but not a standout international, even then.

We have much better prospects.

Also, out of curiosity, are you a Pom expat?

Nah. Just making the most out of the Aviva Premiership coverage we've been getting this year.

Main reason I brought him up is that Nowell doesn't particularly impress me. In all honesty I think he's the lesser of the two starting Exeter wings and I question whether he actually has international level pace and was looking for alternatives who I think would translate better at that level. And Nowell, for some reason, seems to be a consensus pick.

I made a few suggestions which I suppose got progressively more "out there"from Simmonds (who in my mind should be a lock for number 8, in a back row between Itoje and Underhill) to Jonny May to Ojo.