[RWC2019][3rd & 4th Place Playoff] New Zealand vs. Wales (01/11/2019)

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by TRF_heineken, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. Ferrari333SP

    Ferrari333SP Academy Player

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    Wonder if you could argue that's an even stronger team than faced England - at least they have more caps than that team
     
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  3. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    You're not wrong, Ben Smith should 100% have at least been on the bench vs England. Goodhue played well, but we all know Crotty should've realistically been there in such a monumental game.


    Ben Smith at wing. That selection sums up Hansen's last 2 years for me. I'm definitely sad for how Ben Smith was treated this season, I feel it's almost disrespectful playing him on the wing in his final game, maybe he has a better chance there of scoring a try in his final test though.

    Notable dropping: Sam Whitelock.

    I thought Sam Whitelock was one of the players that really let us down against England, usually leading by example, but he put in his worst performance in an All Black jersey in on Saturday (heck, most of the team did), but he in particular cost us dearly at crucial parts of the game. I think Hansen will be feeling pretty let down and wouldn't be surprised if that's the reasoning for his non-selection, there may have been some words directed at him from Hansen & Foster after the game. I would've given him the hair blower treatment.

    But overall it's really strong team, sad to see some old heads go, another end of an era. Read, Crotty, Smith, SBW have been awesome. In the end only 1 of them was playing in the starting XV and that could've been one of the problems.

    I was critical of Hansen in the England thread about how the team has ended up at the end of his tenure, so I'm keen to say some positive things (even though he will never read this lol, it's still nice to express it to other fans of rugby);

    It's been a pretty great decade under his stewardship for the most part. He's implemented a positive, professional, respectful culture in the team and tried his hardest to nurture young talent and support their confidence and development. He finishes with a 86.5% winning record and another RWC under the belt, which is nothing short of brilliant and we've been spoiled. So cheers Steve for the memories!
     
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  4. Kapa O Pango

    Kapa O Pango Bench Player

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    Hard to believe Bender and Crotty didn't start or was on the bench 23 for any of the knockout games.

    Good send off for the guys leaving.
     
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  5. Goodey

    Goodey Bench Player

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    That NZ team, with the exception of missing Savea, is as good as or better than the semi final side and I expect them to belt a quite depleted Wales.

    Will be supporting Wales no doubt. An unlikely match winning performance by the likes of Adams, Lane and Amos would make this an amazing start to a new era rather than the end of this one.
     
  6. Bluemoon

    Bluemoon First XV

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    Yeah, this Wales selection further highlights to me how a lot of the welsh boys were carrying injuries or were overplayed at some level. This team selection is similar to that which had a tough game against Ireland away, so it could be a long day at the office.

    Wales always struggle with this level of rotation and it would have been a tough game with the first team. The only positive is it’s a decent experience for some of the younger players.
     
  7. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose First XV

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    As someone posted above, it'd be funny if Gatland bowed out with Wales beating the ABs with attractive rugby. I like the 10/12 combo, which could in theory bring that. Plus, no Halfpenny :)

    But these combinations have never played together and the forwards may not give them a platform. Again, not a whole lot to be feared in the ABs here in my opinion, unless the real Reiko turns up.

    Purely based on continuity of selection:

    ABs by 21
     
  8. Not Eddie Jones

    Not Eddie Jones Academy Player

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    Sorry, I do get your point, I just didn't make my counterpoint very well. What I was trying to say (and making a right pig's ear of it!) is that I don't think Gatland has overachieved with Wales, I think he's underachieved. Had he added more strings to Wales' bow, ie a decent attack, they could have won that QF against Oz, that SF against the Boks, more 6 nations titles etc. They've had some fine players in his reign and yet I don't feel he's ever really got the best out of them because he has been so limited as a coach. He's had 12 years to develop the team, to progress them, to improve them, but they've been totally static. And I feel that it's the Welsh fans and pundits being grateful for whatever they can get because pre-Gatland there were some lean times that seems to have allowed him to get away with underachieving with Wales for so long.

    Or, in other words, I'm with those disdainful kids. :p Wales should be better for Gatland's departure, not worse.
     
  9. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Wales: Hallam Amos; Owen Lane, Jonathan Davies, Owen Watkin, Josh Adams; Rhys Patchell, Tomos Williams; Nicky Smith, Ken Owens, Dillon Lewis; Adam Beard, Alun Wyn Jones (capt); Justin Tipuric, James Davies, Ross Moriarty.

    Replacements: Elliot Dee, Rhys Carre, Wyn Jones, Jake Ball, Aaron Shingler, Gareth Davies, Dan Biggar, Hadleigh Parkes



    For anyone wondering :p
     
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  10. ThebigARena

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    I think that's a great idea and something neutral fans would be far more invested in , I'd certainly support that the third place game is a joke tbh who really cares it's really just am exhibition game. I'd love to see Japan playing Fiji now in a high stakes game.
     
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  11. ThebigARena

    ThebigARena Bench Player

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    To be honest the only thing that MATTER

    I don't care much for the 3rd place
    Sorry I don't agree , the only thing that matters is WINNING nobody remembers who finished 3rd in a tournament, sure if this was track and field then a bronze is good but in a tournament set up whether that's rugby, football or even cricket nobody cares who finished third and nobody remembers , it's a nothing game in a tournament set up..
     
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  12. ThebigARena

    ThebigARena Bench Player

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    I think gatland has done the right thing to give the young lads a run and treat the game like the exhibition it is. Can't see anything but an all black white wash here , Wales need big match intensity to perform and that will be devoid here so this game will come down to base skills and NZ are leagues in front on that . NZ by 20 plus
     
  13. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    I think a plate is unfeasible and really stupid when given a moment's thought, it'd have to be done as an opt in sort of thing because many unions wouldn't want to pay or couldn't pay the extra money to stay in the country, no T1 nations would be bothered to enter and it'd be an extra hosting cost that is not going to be attractive to fans in the host nation.

    As for this game, seen as the discussion has gotten there, I think this is the first time I'm actually going to watch it and that's purely because NZ are playing and I like their style this year. I see nothing wrong with following boxing in the Olympics approach of giving both losing semi finalists 3rd place. (not that third means anything outside Olympic sports) Forcing Wales to play this game on a five day turnaround is borderline negligent from world rugby in my opinion, there's going to be a lot of broken bodies who need a rest rather than a test match.
     
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  14. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    The irony with these "if you're not 1st you're last" attitudes and approaching a game "not caring" is in fact that it's a losing mentality. Usually it's mainly the arm chair fan or people who haven't experienced competing at a serious level that undervalue these games and criticize the participants.

    For the players and coaching staff, it's another opportunity to put on the All Black jersey and go out and play for their country in order to gain a better ranking in the tournament. People can say it doesn't matter if you're 3rd or 4th and "nobody cares", but that's not true, only to the people with the wrong mentality in my opinion. I care and I can name from the top off my head, most 3rd place finishes at a RWC, sometimes it's fascinating to see a team like Argentina finish 3rd.

    What matters is it's where we are now and doing the best you can for your country and yourselves. If that's not motivation enough, then you can improve your relationship with competition.

    I repeat, I do NOT want to lose to Wales and I'm absolutely positive the team feel the exact same way.
     
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  15. Cooper

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    That's knock-out footy for you, it's a test of character and depth, proper squad management and luck with injuries. The Welsh have been unlucky with injuries, sometimes it happens with a team, we were unlucky in 2011 with our first 5's, Ireland unlucky in 2015, but it's just another test to see if you have the character and depth to get results against adversity.
     
  16. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Well yeah, but the obvious thing here is that they're knocked out, the season isn't even a quarter done for any of the players and it's the shortest turnaround any team have had to face since the pool stages, it's asking for more injuries.

    If I was in the Welsh camp I'd be hoping not to play, is third place in anything worth risking a chance at winning a pro 14, Heineken Cup, 6 nations etc... No way.
     
  17. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    That's a tad dramatic. And it's unfortunate for the European players that it's the start of their season and the end of ours, but that'd be unfair on SH teams to scrap the game for that reason. It's only once every 4 years.

    Also, I think a lot of them would absolutely want to play and beat the All Blacks, it's also another test in the Welsh jersey, I'm sure the players take immense pride in playing for their country. Agreed the turnaround could be better, I still believe the game should be on the Saturday, final on the Sunday or simply just have the game before the final as a curtain raiser. But World Rugby huh.
     
  18. bushytop

    bushytop First XV

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    We'll see, as a proud Welshman and rugby fan I hope you're right. My pessimism is founded on experience of the ****-show Welsh rugby was before Gatland. Maybe our house is in order now (maybe)... or maybe Gatland has been the glue that has stopped Welsh Rugby fragmenting into pieces these last 11 years. We shall soon find out.
     
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  19. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Dramatic but not unrealistic! There's been a couple NH season enders already in this tournament.

    Anyway, think it's time to agree to disagree. I'll have to wait until Ireland have to play in one of these to know where I truly stand though! Maybe after our valiant defence of the title falls short in 2027!
     
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  20. Ferrari333SP

    Ferrari333SP Academy Player

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  21. ncurd

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